NL25 T6s: I wasn't sure about this one.

Nick C · #1 07-27-2006, 08:29 PM

This year, until very recently, I've primarily been a limit 5/10 6-max player. But I've been dabbling more seriously in micro-NL recently, and this damn "Monster" thing at Party has given me an excuse to continue doing that (since the NL25 and NL50 are still "Monster"-free).

MP2 in this hand is 20/6/2.5 after 140. The table as a whole is not as loose as the preflop action in this hand suggests. It also seemed pretty passive to me, but NL25 pretty much always does. Coming from a limit 5/10 6-max perspective, I'm still surprised at the number of folds and checks people make at the NL25. It's not exactly what I expected. (The passivity doesn't surprise me that much, but I anticipated more chasing than I actually see. For the time being, I tend to stay away from the tables with the larger average pot sizes, so this could be a factor in the impressions I'm giving.)

Anyway, on the turn in particular, I felt lost during this one.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($9.75)
MP2 ($15.37)
MP3 ($4.75)
CO ($23.30)
Button ($31.85)
Hero ($19.25)
BB ($26.33)
UTG ($25.95)
UTG+1 ($3.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.25, 2 folds, Button calls $0.25, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

I decided to toss 15 cents in here and play. Too loose?

Flop: ($1.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets $0.25, Button calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, BB folds, UTG+1 calls $0.25.

As OESDs go, I thought mine was pretty weak, but I didn't want to fold it for a mere 25 cents.

Turn: ($2.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets $3, Button folds, Hero calls $3, UTG+1 folds.

Hurray, I guess. I made my hand. But of the eight cards I was hoping for, the 9d was my last choice.

I considered leading the turn, but with three opponents, I decided to check for information instead. Bad idea?

In any case, when MP2 dramatically increased the size of his bet (compared to his flop stab), I wasn't thrilled with the information I got.

River: ($8.25) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $11.87 (All-In), Hero folds.

MP2 waited about 17 seconds before pushing on the river; it took me less than 1 second to fold.

Final Pot: $20.12

holograham · #2 07-27-2006, 08:39 PM

preflop is fine... ill often complete with any 2 suited you just have to be comfortable handling marginal holdings postflop.

flop play in my opinion was weak...I would reraise here, its not about only calling because its 25 cents. You have gained nothing on your oppenent and you have put more money into the pot which is a big no no

Turn...this is difficult, you've put yourself into a tough posistion. I would've led off with a roughly pot sized bet. Folded to a sizeable reraise.

River...easy fold.

Jigsaws · #3 07-27-2006, 08:47 PM

Meh, I would've folded preflop. There are so few hands T6s can make you actually like... it's way too easy to be dominated. Make a flush, and you will only get the money in against a higher flush. Make a straight, and it usually won't be the nut straight. Make top pair, have a weak kicker. All these things can be overcome, but you're out of position as well. All this makes this an easy fold for me.

Nick C · #4 07-27-2006, 09:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
flop play in my opinion was weak...I would reraise here, its not about only calling because its 25 cents. You have gained nothing on your oppenent and you have put more money into the pot which is a big no no

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, maybe you could explain further here? (I'm relatively new to no limit and I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at.)

Anyway, my thinking at the time (on the flop) was that it was already a bet and a call to me, the flop was likely to have hit at least one or two players at this table, and as OESDs go, mind kind of sucked. So I decided to peel for a cheap look at the turn, hoping that, say, the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] would fall (or at least a non-diamond 9).

davekngs · #5 07-27-2006, 10:42 PM

PF is fine you should complete with anything suited or connecting and a few more.

on the flop it is upto you whether u call or fold but raising is not an option for me. you have a weak draw in a terrible position.

on the turn you need to lead out with a decent size bet of about 2/3 of the pot to the whole pot and fold to any sort of raise.

if he just calls your turn bet then you have to check the river and call a small bet but fold to a decent size bet.

as you played it you must fold on the turn. you have invested only .50 and you are potentially getting yourself into trouble.

in no limit you cant afford to get into marginal situations OOP. just give it up and there will be much better chances than that

gimmetheloot · #6 07-27-2006, 11:16 PM

Please, never raise this flop.

I fold flop also. Lead/fold turn. Ugh, your positon and so many people in the hand makes this whole hand awful.

Nick C · #7 07-27-2006, 11:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Please, never raise this flop.

I fold flop also. Lead/fold turn. Ugh, your positon and so many people in the hand makes this whole hand awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Part of my problem during the hand was that I wasn't sure how another Tx would respond to a turn lead, and thus I wasn't sure what I should do if raised -- Tx is generally raising at limit 5/10 6-max, which is a different game but also a big part of the experience I'm drawing from. But, yeah, folding a possible chop isn't really a disaster anyway. Betting the turn does seem like the thing to do, and I suspected it might be at the time.

hammerva · #8 07-27-2006, 11:55 PM

You folded so you have no idea what he really has but you obviously felt it would your beat your straight. If hit a flush would he have been that indecisive on the play? A pot size bet on the turn when you hit the flush doesn't seem to make sense? unless he knew you had the T which I would love to know how he figure that out.

Nick C · #9 07-28-2006, 12:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If hit a flush would he have been that indecisive on the play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect he was faking his indecisiveness on the river. Isn't that a popular ploy?

In any event, as the pause got longer and longer, I began to anticipate a big bet on the river more and more.

KingKory · #10 07-28-2006, 12:14 AM

You have 3 pure outs on the flop; why call it?

You took a chance completing the blind (99.9% fold), and you missed the flop. Time to get rid of them. The [censored] end of an OESD with a 2-flush out there does not justify remaining in this hand.

EDIT: Ya, it was the A-high straight draw, but still.

EDIT2: Man, why are you flat-calling the turn when your hand hits? By calling the flop, you make a decision that the K-high straight is good. If you suspected a flush draw or a nut straight on the flop, you shouldn't have seen the turn in the first place.