Betting Change Outcome of Slots?

chicagoY · #1 07-25-2006, 11:42 PM

Pardon my complete ignorance on this one. I love poker but know absolutely zero about slots. MY GF is slots only and plays weekly here in Illinois.

While no one cares about my players card in Vegas, my GF gets the royal treatment as she's a slot player (i always thought "sucker"). She goes to the Chicago Harrahs (Joliet) and generates a ton of points. She also gets serious rakeback in the form of 200 buck monthly cash coupons they send her in the mail. This year--I'm not lying--she's way up. I don't know how and I can't explain it. She plays -EV machines and never asks about higher payout ones like the 102 percent video poker one the Excalibur said they had.

According to her, the fact that she bets the maximum with each roll gives her a better chance of winning. She believes that the casinos skew the odds in favor of those who invest more. Could this be possible?

I wouldn't even mention it but I can't believe how well she's doing. My negative bias against slots and other casino games prevents me from analyzing it objectively. I told her it was simply variance spinning in her favor, but I figured that one of you guys might know.

SheetWise · #2 07-26-2006, 12:13 AM

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According to her, the fact that she bets the maximum with each roll gives her a better chance of winning. She believes that the casinos skew the odds in favor of those who invest more. Could this be possible?

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There is frequently a "last coin" bonus that shows up on the jackpot only -- so it's not something you would notice in the short run (which could be years). There are machines called "buy pay" where the winning combination changes with every coin -- but I haven't seen one in years.

Other than that -- no, the casino cannot "skew the odds" for an individual player, based on their play history or for any other reason.

chicagoY · #3 07-26-2006, 06:45 AM

Thank you, I had not heard of "buy pay" before. I think she thinks that they skew them for anybody who bets the maximum per spin.

Yads · #4 07-26-2006, 03:50 PM

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she thinks that they skew them for anybody who bets the maximum per spin.

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They don't exactly skew the odds, but as the previous poster said the jackpot is usually available only when you bet the max so technically it is more EV to bet the max (although still very -EV.)

Teetster · #5 07-26-2006, 11:12 PM

Its like many video poker machines. That last coin makes you eligible for the progressive, or higher multiplier on big wins. So, while you're still -EV overall, if you hit a big win, your win is proportionately higher if you're playing max coins.

Give her time, she will end up a losing player. All slots players do, if they never quit. In the mean time enjoy it. My wife blows a grand a month on slots sometimes!

chicagoY · #6 07-27-2006, 02:53 AM

Hey guys, thanks a lot, I appreciate it. I'm sure she won't because I have little doubt her luck will soon change. I hope not though. She's been buying a ton since New Years which is +EV!

B.C. · #7 07-29-2006, 07:58 AM

Every slot is pre programmed at a set rate.

It is irrelevant how many coins or lines you play. In the case of machines which only offer a jackpot for max bet or additional coins, previous posters have it exactly right. Whilst this is the only way to win the MAX Jackpot amount, it will not affect the actual win rate or return to player.

Every slot machine is operated by a RNG and no alteration to betting patterns can alter its outcome (RTP). Depending on the casino or machine the house has anything from a 2% - 15% advantage in its favor.

The average casino generates approx 85-90% of its profits from slots. Do her a favor and teach her poker or a table game.

SheetWise · #8 07-29-2006, 12:55 PM

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Whilst this is the only way to win the MAX Jackpot amount, it will not effect the actual win rate or return to player.

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Of course it will -- what it won't change is the win frequency.

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... the house has anything from a 2% - 15% advantage in its favor .

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As opposed to what? An advantage not in its favor? That would be called a disadvantage.

Kaeser · #9 07-29-2006, 01:49 PM

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The average casino generates approx 85-90% of its profits from slots. Do her a favor and teach her poker or a table game.

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If his wife really enjoys playing slots, as she obviously does, and isn't spending money they can't afford then why try to make her change games. I would think she'd find it fairly condescending of him. There's more to live then +EV after all.

My wife always splits tens in BJ versus a dealer 7 or lower. I wince inwardly but in marriage you have to pick your battles.

CORed · #10 07-30-2006, 01:08 AM

Although betting maximum coins on slots and video poker increases your EV on a percentage basis, it usually reduces EV in absolute dollars (except for VP machine4s that are +EV with maximum coin and perfect play. The best waqy to play slots or VP is to play nickels, very slowly, one coin at a time and try to drink enough to make it +EV.