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  #1  
Old 07-25-2006, 07:27 PM
No_Foolin'? No_Foolin'? is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: nut flush gulch, varmint!
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Default SB vs. BB top pair value-raise?

Read on Villain:

Played for a few hours now with him at the table. Is sitting at both my 2/4 tables. Seen him limp re-raise one time from the CO, don't know what he had but played his hand strong on an all-broadway board vs. myself and another player (after I raised him pf w/ my ATs). Seen him call my 6-max UTG raise with 82s in the BB HU. Seems relatively straight-forward, potentially tricky sometimes, and potentially somewhat inexplicably loose in the blinds. My read is only from today.

My table image:

Tight, aggressive at times. Not playing many hands. Showing down with strong holdings. Not being incredibly active in the blinds: reasonable in the blinds so far, but few examples of my blind play are on record at either table.

Here's the hand (sorry, amateur can't find working convertor for Crypto hands):

Villain open-limps in the SB. I raise from the BB w/ QTs.

Flop comes T7x rainbow. Villain checks, I bet, Villain calls.

Turn is a blank. Villain check-raises. I call, and call down from here.


Question: You know basically what I know about Villain. (If my above descriptions are good). My question is...should I be 3-betting this turn as standard procedure?

My lizard-brain thinking (which seems to always automatically kick in when I'm check-raised on the turn - yeah, this is a leak) was either that Villain potentially had me outkicked or has been slowplaying a monster. I didn't really account for the fact that he was playing his 76 this way. In retrospect, his turn play seems reasonable if he puts me on a big ace or some such, but given how tight I've been playing today, it's hard for me to put Villain on middle pair because I think he ought to know that I'm not getting out of line very often, and when I've been showing aggression it's for good reason.

Anyways, turns out he spikes trips on the river and I lose the pot. I'm wondering whether a turn 3-bet would have folded him out. I seriously doubt it, but in retrospect a separate issue comes up. I'm wondering whether 3-betting this turn should be a standard value-raise in a blind-steal/blind-defend situation for us - where, as you know, people start getting quite aggressive with somewhat marginal holdings, even when you think they ought to know better given the table image you've been presenting so far.

Of course I was pissed that he sucked out on me and of course dream that "if only I had re-raised" I could've won the pot. I tried to express my displeasure by asking him "value raise?" in the chat box, but he only said "fold equity". Whatever luckbox.

But the real issue here for me is, in these blind battles or blind steal/defend situations, is 3-betting my hand a good play or too-close-to-spewing-to-be-worthwhile?

Thanks for reading.

PS: Yeah, it's a "bad beat" post, blah blah blah, but with a serious question, so there.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2006, 07:37 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline
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Default Re: SB vs. BB top pair value-raise?

I would play it the same. 3betting the turn with your hand is too much and opens you up to a cap as well. If he's bluffing or betting a weaker hand then let him continue on the river. And he is never folding that turn after he checkraises you unless he is on a pure bluff.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2006, 07:45 PM
No_Foolin'? No_Foolin'? is offline
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Location: nut flush gulch, varmint!
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Default Re: SB vs. BB top pair value-raise?

Genesis,

Great pic. Well, we're at the turn, and Villain seems to be quite enamored with his hand. My guess is he will make a crying call on the river if we pop him on the turn, deluding himself that we're overplaying AK or something. In these HU situations, it seems that folks fall in love with their paired hands and will call us down.

And if he caps this turn, given my read on him, I will easily (though not happily) find a fold on the river UI.

What u think?
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:13 PM
jba jba is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: SB vs. BB top pair value-raise?

if you're going to put in another raise wait until the river for the simple reason that you get that river bluff bet when he wont pay off a turn 3bet.

also if villain has some cheesy two pair he'll often think you resucked -- especially if the river is > ten.

PS: given the limited info you gave us I'd probably just call down. not that your post didnt have good info because it did, but sometimes you get that blink info after a full day of play that you're good here >~55%
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