Video Tutorial: My first attempt - 100NL 6-max [x-post]

[iSTRONG]

I have recorded a 35 min video with commentary of me playing a NL100 6max ring game. It's a small file (51.8MB) and I hope it will be a good guide for beginners who are a bit lost in short-handed NL games. It should give you a good feel for preflop strategy. I am no expert so be critical of what you see. I'd love to receive some feedback (general or specific hands). I'll also answer questions if you've got any.

You can download the video HERE

[tufat23]

watched it. looked standard, apart from your desire to play every Qx you got. 2 limpers and u pop with Q5!? thought this was meant to be for beginners, and really I can't see it being +EV in the long run for good players anyway.
also the commentary was nonesistant apart from 'there's a limper and i have K7 so im gonna punish' i can see that...

[lucksack]

I wonder if your hate against openlimping is correct, since I thought I read from NLHTP that openlimping in LP could be good with f.e. small pocket pairs (want them to flop a pair when you flop a set instead of just stealing the blinds) or JT (decent but not great hand so you'd rather see the flop in position instead of trying to steal the blinds). I don't remember exactly what was said there, or how well it applies to NL short cash games, and I'm pretty much a newbie to NL short, but I'd like to hear comments from better players.

[neverforgetlol]

will take a look, thanks

[Directrix]

Downloading because I forget how to play poker. Thanks

[iSTRONG]

tufat,

Thanks for your reply. It's a very standard vid, as I said it's was aimed at beginners. There is not much commentary either; as I said it was my first attempt so there i realise there is much space for improvement amd will try to comment more on the next one.

[iSTRONG]

Lucksack,

I haven't read NLTHP yet but I doubt they recommend ever limping in a 6-max game. I have no hate for open-limpers, quite the opposite; Because I raise them in position and it very hard for them to call a raise (and lose the initiative) and continue playing post-flop. Also the range of hands that you recommend limping with in LP is so small (I guess) that it makes you very readable.

I think a majority of 2+2ers also agree with the view that you should never open-limp at 6-max.

[boomboom]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't read NLTHP yet but I doubt they recommend ever limping in a 6-max game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they do. They even goes so far as to say that there are times when it is correct to open limp on the button. I've been going back and reading a lot of old posts here for the past week. The general consensus here seems to be that you should never open limp. I would like to see some discussion from both camps. I'm trying to learn the game and I haven't been able to determine what's right.

[lucksack]

[ QUOTE ]
Lucksack,

I haven't read NLTHP yet but I doubt they recommend ever limping in a 6-max game. I have no hate for open-limpers, quite the opposite; Because I raise them in position and it very hard for them to call a raise (and lose the initiative) and continue playing post-flop. Also the range of hands that you recommend limping with in LP is so small (I guess) that it makes you very readable.

I think a majority of 2+2ers also agree with the view that you should never open-limp at 6-max.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say you hate open-limpers, quite the opposite; you hate openlimping yourself. Also, there's no range that I recommend openlimping with, I just read it and wonder what the better strategy is. I guess it's based on the fact that raising costs more than in limit (where openlimping is seldom a good play even in EP 10-handed) and the drawing hands have great implied odds in NL.

It was a nice video however, and I think I maybe learned something from it, so thanks.

[Cry Me A River]

[ QUOTE ]

I think a majority of 2+2ers also agree with the view that you should never open-limp at 6-max.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO, having a hard and fast rule here really, really limits you when you can be far more flexible.

I haven't been playing 6-max for a while, however, I exclusively played 6-max back when the skins split from Party Poker. I played on Multi and Empire and did really, really well open limping a lot. This was because of very specific table conditions. (I was playing $50NL at the time)

Tables were generally (obviously there were exceptions) very, very weak-tight preflop and very loose passive post flop.

So let's say I had KJ in the CO/button and it was folded to me. Or even if there was a limper or two. If I raised, everyone would fold somewhere around 95% of the time. So I'd make 1.5BB to 2.5BB depending on limpers.

However, if I limped, I'd have position and one of four things would usually happen:

Nobody else would hit anything (I may or may not hit, doesn't matter), I'd bet the flop and take it down. I win those same 1.5BB to 2.5BB.

Somebody would hit top pair or better, I wouldn't hit anything, they'd bet it and I'd fold. I loose 1BB.

The flop would miss me, it's checked to me, I bet, but somebody calls. I shut it down unless I think double barrelling it will work against a draw or I improve. I loose somewhere between 3-5BB unless I hit my jack or king in which case I win slightly more.

I hit top pair with the jack or king, bet, and someone calls me down all the way. 80% of the time this would turn out to be middle/low pair, 20% of the time it's 2 pair/set etc. Obviously I'm carefull if it looks like a straight/flush made it. On average I win 10-15BB.

The key here is that calling PF raises was really, really uncommon and since you're going to be seeing the flop usually against only a couple players the chances that the flop helps anyone is low so they don't benefit much from seeing the flop cheaply. OTOH, those times where you BOTH flop a pair your pair is better and you turn a 1.5BB hand into a 10BB hand by giving your opponents a chance to make a second best hand.

Of course all the PF folding means you just plain steal with crap. But you're limping enough that you're opponents don't see you as a bully.

I was actually more likely to raise MP and EP looking for everyone to fold PF than LP because it's more difficult to steal orphan pots with a couple players behind you.

Obviously this is very table specific, if your opponents will call a lot of pre-flop raises and fold to c-bets or can fold second best hands post flop or otherwise play better then this isn't the way to go.

But to completely eliminate limping from your arsenal is IMHO a pretty big oversight.