3 handed 75/150 stud hi.. interesting hand.

[Bill King]

i came into the room in the morning a few months ago and this hand really has been annoying me. its the foxwoods 75/150 stud game, and there were two players i have had some limited experience with in the past playing HU. my holdem game had not gotten together yet (which is VERY rare, but it was post-WPT tournament time and games are very dry/slow to get together during this time).

so i grabbed some chips and sat down at the stud game. one player is a middle aged fellow, who plays pretty solidly and is a regular in the game. he is very intelligent but tends to play too timidly at times.. but is still a winning player. the other is a mid 20's asian kid. he is also someone i see playing in the game regularly, but not as much as the other. he is a very intelligent and very skilled and thoughtful player.. he evaluates scenario's very well and is a winning player. i figure there will be some live players filling in soon, so we mix it up 3-handed for a little while.

i am winning after around 30 hands, and this hand came up.

the asian kid brings it in for $25..

i hold (J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and complete

older guy with XXA[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] calls, asian kid mucks.

pot: $220

4th
me: ( J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
villain: XXA[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

he bets, i raise, he calls.
pot: $520

5th
me: ( J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
villain: XXA[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

he checks, i bet, he calls
pot: $670

6th
me: ( J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
villain: XXA[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

he checks, i check

7th
me: ( J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
villain: XXA[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]X

he checks, i bet, he raises, i 3-bet, he 4-bets.. i call.. he shows AAA44

rolled AAA, filled on the river. i make K high straight.

im disgusted with myself that we got 4 bets in on the river, but i often wonder if he had played this badly or if it were me overplaying a hand, and when i made it 3-bets i put him on A's up possibly. opinions?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

If they can read hands and fold hands when they know they should I don't think the 3bet shows that much profit, but I still think it does because of how shorthanded it is. When he 4bets I don't see how you can possibly be winning. I know 3bet and fold to a cap/4bet is one of the lamest lines out there, but your hand is so obvious when you 3bet that there is no way to call a 4bet.

I don't see any reason not to raise 6th if I'm the villian. Even if you hit your straight if I fill I can easily bet/3bet on 7th.

Seriously you MAYBE made 1 tiny mistake and one so-so bad mistake that even good players are prone to making. There is nothing to beat yourself up over.

[irish hustler]

stop telling bad beat stories, u played fine but shudve taken a free card on 5th- thats the whole point of raising on 4th- to get a free card on 5th when the bet is bigger. Theres no way ur getting away from the hand.

[PoorLawyer]

I think you played the hand fine. If he was rolled up, I am guessing he was going to check-raise you on 6th but you didnt give him the chance. When you raise him on 4th he must be loving life figuring you are going to do the betting for him and he will have one shot to get a raise in. I would have raised 5th if I were him and that would have resulted in almost the same amount of money going in because you would still probably raise the river when you hit your draw.

[jon_1van]

I don't like your 6th street check.

I bet here....worst case scenario you have like 15 outs in 40ish cards.

I don't hate the river. If it was full ring you may be able to fold to the 4 bet. But 3-way??? I can't make that fold. The only way you could avoid it is to just call the raise....given that he could have a 4 flush...this is probably the best move. After all, if he doesn't beat a straight or a flush he probably won't 4-bet you. So you are giving up 1 BB when he has trips, yet losing 2 BB when he has a flush or FH.

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]
shudve taken a free card on 5th- thats the whole point of raising on 4th- to get a free card on 5th

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this too. But once you bet 5th you should follow up 6th (espically when you improve like you did) However, if you're gonna take a freebie...do so on 5th.

[CarlosChadha]

Unlike the other posters, I don't think you played the hand fine. My guess, based on the way the hand played out, is that you were totally absorbed with your own hand, and didn't really have a read on the other player. Here is what I would have been thinking:

3rd: I got cold called by an A, uh oh. Any time this happens, alarm bells go off in my head as it often means that the other player is slowplaying split As. Luckily, since they didn't reraise (especially short handed), their hand becomes even more apparent, and since the pot is smaller it now becomes easier for me to fold a marginal hand if they show aggression.

4th:Bingo, I caught my best possible card, giving me a 4 str8 and a 3 flush. He caught a rag, but for some reason is betting into...gee looks like he was slowplaying Aces. The other hand I put him on would be 3 diamonds with the 7d. There is an outside chance he has trip 7s, trip As, or a smaller pocket pair.

Against his two most likely hands (As or 7s+3Flush) I am currently a favorite, so I would raise for value and possibly to take a free card later in the hand.

5th: I ragged and he caught a diamond, which could give him a 4 flush+7s. Since I caught bad there is no way he folding any of his possible hands. So there is no point in betting with the worst hand, especially since it opens me up for a check raise. A check here is clearly the best play.

6th: At this point, your opponents actions may have been diffferent had you taken the free card on 5th, so I'll just make comments based on your play.

Since you didn't get check raised on 5th, it is less likely that your opponent has trips or Aces (although he very well might be checking dry Aces because he is scared of 2 pair/trips). Taking a free card here is correct (although if he has 7+4flush, you are actually a small favorate now that you have a str8 flush draw + 4 overcards).

7th: A three bet here is not horrible because he might just be raising with As up or 3 Aces. But since a probable hand he might have is a flush draw, I don't think the 3 bet is advisable since there is too likely a chance that you'll get 4 bet (and no, I don't think you should fold to a 4 bet...he could be overplaying trips, misread his hand, or just have gone crazy).

As to how your opponent played...he missed 2 bets by not check raising you on 5th and then betting into you on 6th, so I don't think he played it that well.

Carlos

[jon_1van]

[ QUOTE ]


Taking a free card here is correct (although if he has 7+4flush, you are actually a small favorate now that you have a str8 flush draw + 4 overcards).


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what I think about this. I kinda don't like it.


My 1st thought on 6th street is "Our hands MUST be very close in equity." WORST case is I'm a 25/75ish dog to trips (but I'm not worried about this AT ALL).

So because the hands are very close in value...I dont' really care 1 way or the other if a bet goes in. All I want to do is maximize the chance that I can win at the river via making my opponent fold.

So I bet.

Realistically, this bet is probably immediately costing me .1 BBs in EV.

However, had I checked 5th, I think I'm probably gonna see a showdown, so there's no point in betting and losing that .1 BBs.

You might as well check, and hope to get more action if you actually hit your hand.

[Bill King]

have you ever played stud before at higher than .5/.10c?


if so then you will realize how far off your line is.

AAA is the only hand i shouldnt bet into here.

[Bill King]

no i dont think this is the right play. my opponent is smart and probably puts me on a decent range of hands (assuming he doesnt have AAA, which he does), so i dont think raising on 5th is smart because afterall i do still have Q high w/ a big draw. i know that if i make say, a pair of Q's on the river i'll have to pay off split aces, possibly wired KK, or anything better than that. so my free card on 6th was perfect in my opinion because if he doesnt fill up even with AAA, he has a tough time calling a river raise from me b/c he knows for sure i can beat a set or two pair.. or even if im bluffing its still hard to call.. especially a river c/r.