Too Aggressive on every street?

SwimsWithFish · #1 07-21-2006, 01:41 AM

I know I should have folded to the final bet, the last call was a total donkey move. I am wondering however if leading out and betting each street is correct. I think the flop is correct because of all the checking in front of me. I'm unsure if I should have bet the turn and river. I also think the turn is correct with the checks in front of me, but perhaps I should have taken a check/fold or even a bet/fold line on the river.

PokerRoom 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds.

Turn: (9.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: (12.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jh Jd (one pair, jacks).
Button doesn't show.
SB has Qd Th (two pair, queens and tens).
Outcome: SB wins 18.50 BB.

Gravy · #2 07-21-2006, 01:48 AM

Hey dude,

1) don't post results, they taint the discussion of the hand.

2) every street is fine except the river, where you should fold to the checkraise. 2nd pair's no good here.

Scary_Tiger · #3 07-21-2006, 01:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey dude,

1) don't post results, they taint the discussion of the hand.

2) every street is fine except the river, where you should fold to the checkraise. 2nd pair's no good here.

[/ QUOTE ]

jba · #4 07-21-2006, 01:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey dude,

1) don't post results, they taint the discussion of the hand.

2) every street is fine except the river, where you should fold to the checkraise. 2nd pair's no good here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
end of thread

river call is especially nasty as the pot is protected. no way you are good here

Nick C · #5 07-21-2006, 02:12 AM

You don't have any good options on the river.

You're hardly ever good once SB checkraises after a bet and a call, and folding is best unless you have a read that SB is an irrational LAG. The problem, though, is that making river folds in big pots can cost you a lot of money if you pick the wrong pots. I don't know how experienced you are or aren't at this point, but if you're kind of new, you shouldn't kick yourself too much when you pay off instead of making a big fold.

SwimsWithFish · #6 07-21-2006, 09:06 AM

NickC, that's my actual problem, I have read over and over again, that you just don't make folds in big pots on the river. Once I reviewed this hand I could tell, I was clearly beat, even while playing I thought I was beat, I have no idea why I hit the call button. Impulse maybe, maybe I just wanted to "look him up". I certainly recognized that this was a big pot which made me more inclined to call. I think these are the types of folds I need to add to my game.

cfjr2 · #7 07-21-2006, 09:33 AM

I still call too often also but in this spot with 2 callers all the way to the river I think you should check / call. My reasoning is you get to showdown cheap and you aren't giving up much value since most worse hands will fold and you don't get raised by better hands. From the looks of it they both called down with a Q (altough Bu may have any pair) and the T hit SB for top 2p.

Unless I have the a set or better (and not even then sometimes) I usually check this behind.

Gravy · #8 07-21-2006, 09:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I have the a set or better (and not even then sometimes) I usually check this behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are checking behind on this river with top pair, two pair, or a set, you are missing a ton of value. Like a metric [censored]-ton.

jstill · #9 07-21-2006, 10:39 AM

Unless I have the a set or better (and not even then sometimes) I usually check this behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah thats retarded value betting is soo soooo important to succeed in sh lhe Id bet QJ here without question. This hand with two opponents you shouldnt be betting here; against one Id be tempted to (and would probably) if hes a fish. I like everything except the river bet unless I have reads BOTH opponents are terrible calling stations. I think I would have checked folded to 2 bets back obviously and only overcall if button was habitual bluffer and sb was very loose. I dont check through the turn for what its worth.

As Nick C said starting out payoff alot dont make this fold when learning the game in these huge pots doing it at the wrong times can kill your winrate; later you can learn when to ditch these for one bet closing the action (wont be a ton anyways protected pot like this after ur bet call then raise is definate spot for it however with your hand).

dont sweat this hand a whole lot though just learn from it as youre comin up in the game.

cfjr2 · #10 07-21-2006, 11:16 AM

with 2 other callers in ? I will get fold fold if they were on a draw and see a Qx a large remainder from at least one of them. The times I get value from one of them calling with a T is minimal.