Dirty Poker - How much is true???

[BuckThunder]

So I just got done reading the book Dirty Poker and it was disturbing to say the least. I mean how prevelant is cheating, and at what levels does it begin to become a problem? Is this guy full of crap? He seem spretty legit and has a lot of credentials backing his claims.

Do I need to resort to cheating to make a living playing poker full time? I do have a dream of playing full time at modest levels (30-60, 20-40) and making a modest living, but do I need to have a collusion team to be a realistic winner?

And the stuff about the WSOP cheating syndicates is just mind boggling. He makes very strong points for these guys teaming up and chip dumping. Everyone agrees that there is a very slight diffeerence in skill levels among the top pros so why the same names and winners all the time? I mean if there are 150 top tourney pros, shouldn't the distribution of titles, cashes, final table appearences, etc be very wide? But it isn't. These guys really get together and chip dump to each other? Hell - Men the master got stone cold busted for it with his crew. What chance does an honest poker schmuck like me have against a team of pros chip dumping?

I know collusion happens online and in real life - I have witnessed it myself - I can tell you a casino in Seattle where the employees collude with regulars - ex employees have told me and I have been a victim to it. But how rampant is it? The author makes it sound like you don't have a chance in the long run playing honest poker and definitely no at the top levels.

Sorry for the rambling but this book really freaked me out and I don't want to be the naive idiot losing all his chips and just going "well I must not be very good". I know I am good - well good enough, but not against cheats. Do I have a chance to make a living as an honest player?

And please respond honestly to this post. If you have to start a new account to protect yourself because you cheat and want to chime in than by all means do it!

ED, David, Mason - have you guys witnessed a lot of cheating in your days - and whats your resposnse to playing the game straight and winning? How legit is this guy?

The Buck Stops Here

[Psycho Boy Jack]

pretty interresting question.
I'm waiting for the answers impatiently.

[BuckThunder]

Here is the link to his weblite if anyone cares. I am surprised there have been no responses yet either way!

http://richardmarcusbooks.com/

[Psycho Boy Jack]

perhaps not the good forum...

[miketurner]

I’m guessing that you haven’t got any responses for 2 reasons...
1. Most players probably just don’t know.
2. If cheating is rampant, the cheaters themselves would know the most info... and it would be in their best interest to either deny that it happens much, or stay quiet about it.

The chance of being cheated has not kept me from playing, but it has kept me in small stakes. I have done ok with a ROI of about 30%. As long as I’m winning, I guess I just don’t sweat it too much. But then again, my goals are different than yours.

Of coarse, cheating has always been around. My guess is that this book will only make cheating worse, as more paranoid players start to think that they better “get on board” if they want to keep up. It’s sad, really. I’ll keep my integrity, and plug away at small stakes for fun & a little extra money.

[ECDub]

I remember some people discussing this book when it came out and I have no idea how it dropped off my radar. I definitely want to read this book. It sounds very interesting.

[deacsoft]

I have not read the book but I'm sure I'll get to it sooner or later. As far as cheating goes, my only experience with it was at Bally's in Las Vegas. A guy at my table noticed another guy bending the corners of a couple cards. He got up and got the floor manager and was really pissed. The guy who got caught was only given a very harsh warning and allowed to continue playing. So it is out there but probably not as prevalent as it used to be (in live games anyway).

[WalkAmongUs]

i've heard 3 interviews with this guy. the first 2...he sounded like a lunatic. the third one i started to wonder if he might be onto something and then he went downhill fast and sounded like even more of a lunatic.

he's basically a wild conspiracy theorist. one of his conspiracies states that jennifer tilly paid off all the players in the WSOP tourney she won because winning it would help her career (if you can call it that).

he also states that High Stakes Poker on GSN is all a farce and all the players give each other their money back at the end of it. now...that doesn't sound totally insane, however, he bases his whole argument for it on the fact that, as he puts it...

"nobody would want to play for and possibly lose that kind of money..i mean come on...you'd have to be crazy" (i don't have the exact quote but this is like 90% exactly what he said)

thats like me saying that since i think "nobody would be crazy enough to eat bull testicles" then anyone who has ever done it is a cheat and obviously set it up and its a total hoax...i mean come on...nobody does that...

[JohnG]

[ QUOTE ]
I do have a dream of playing full time at modest levels (30-60, 20-40) and making a modest living, but do I need to have a collusion team to be a realistic winner?

[/ QUOTE ]

At those levels, you should be ok.

[BuckThunder]

I think you should read the book. He doesnt say tilly paid everyone off he suggests that a deal was cut with the players because letting her win would be good for womens poker and the WSOP and on a side note stated it would help her career also.

He makes very valid mathematical and statistical points for pros colluding in the WSOP and at the higher level cash games. I have not seen an interview with him.

He has been on tv and was a casino cheat for many years that much is valid. He has cheated poker games and has watched others do it as well. He could be full of crap, but he makes some good points.