U.S. Economy looking Strong!

[TaintedRogue]

Over the last 3 hours, the national debt has increased by:
$230,772,660.00 to a total of $8,421,666.245,730

The social security trust fund has increased by:
$59,010,431.00 to a total of 1,952,743,729,073.00; of course we loaned that money to the general fund to finance the above debt, so we'll probably never get it back.
http://zfacts.com/p/461.html


Keep up the good work George!

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
we loaned that money to the general fund to finance the above debt

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never quite understood why people find this practice objectionable? Do you think we ought to just rent out a big vault somewhere and maintain stacks upon stacks of physical banknotes? Everywhere else in the universe, US government debt is considered the safest investment option around.

[C0pernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we loaned that money to the general fund to finance the above debt

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never quite understood why people find this practice objectionable? Do you think we ought to just rent out a big vault somewhere and maintain stacks upon stacks of physical banknotes? Everywhere else in the universe, US government debt is considered the safest investment option around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they don't understand it, or if they do, would rather use inflammatory references like "there is no Trust Fund".

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we loaned that money to the general fund to finance the above debt

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never quite understood why people find this practice objectionable? Do you think we ought to just rent out a big vault somewhere and maintain stacks upon stacks of physical banknotes? Everywhere else in the universe, US government debt is considered the safest investment option around.

[/ QUOTE ]

The primary reason for objection:

The interest isn't paid immediately, trust fund just receives more IOUs (in the form of more special bonds) for the interest that accumulates.

By not having to physically come up with the interest payments, they can run up a higher deficit each year, without adverse affects on the economy/demand for dollars.

Thus, the requirement for fiscal discipline by Congress is thwarted, as we don't feel the full effects of the deficit immediately.

Another problem is that the money borrowed from the fund in the early 80's will have to be repaid by a generation living/running the country in the 20's. Not only will they resent the fact that they are having to pay the old people's retirement, they are not going to see any benefit that they obtained by the government of the 80's borrowing from the fund instead of the general public.

The generation of the 20's are only going to see the negative effects of not having that "buffer" of SS trust money to finance THEIR deficits, plus having to come up with money to pay back what is owed. This will make it a lot easier for the generation running our country at that time, to cut social security benefits.

40% of our national debt is not owed to the public but rather SS or other govt trust funds, therefore, we don't have to pay the interest immediately; we just issue more IOUs in the form of "special bonds" to pay the interest as it accumulates.

When a government can run up a deficit in that manner, and has no fiscal responsibility, something has to give sooner or later. Over the last 7.4 hours, the national debt has increased by 550 million according to the debt clock I have running. The social security trust fund and other depts. have grown by 230 million, so the govt only has to come up with 320 million.

Can you invision the positive IMMEDIATE effects to the economy by the government borrowing 36% of the deficit from the trust funds and just issuing IOUs?

There were plenty of other safe places to invest the social security trust fund money, while requiring Congress to either act fiscally responsible, or pay the price now, instead of putting the problem onto future generations.

Do you really think that we would have the 8.4 trillion dollar national debt, if our government had to physically come up with all the interest payments every year, in addition to retiring all the bonds after their 30 year life?

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we loaned that money to the general fund to finance the above debt

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never quite understood why people find this practice objectionable? Do you think we ought to just rent out a big vault somewhere and maintain stacks upon stacks of physical banknotes? Everywhere else in the universe, US government debt is considered the safest investment option around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because they don't understand it, or if they do, would rather use inflammatory references like "there is no Trust Fund".

[/ QUOTE ]

Copernicus, were you banned? Why?

Also, with regards to your statement, no, we don't expect that the government will put it in a vault somewhere, that would be silly. I think we expect taht the government would invest it, as that is what every private pension plan is required to do.

[hmkpoker]

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Do you think we ought to just rent out a big vault somewhere and maintain stacks upon stacks of physical banknotes?

[/ QUOTE ]

*gasp* You mean, actually HAVE the money to pay for the things we're buying? What's next, Americans actually having debit accounts that can finance their toys instead of indebting themselves with credit cards? Madness!

[ QUOTE ]
US government debt is considered the safest investment option around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boy, I'd like to invest in something that's thirteen figures in the hole.

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we loaned that money to the general fund to finance the above debt

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never quite understood why people find this practice objectionable? Do you think we ought to just rent out a big vault somewhere and maintain stacks upon stacks of physical banknotes? Everywhere else in the universe, US government debt is considered the safest investment option around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets see, SS is money "borrowed" from american taxpayers, with the promise of return + interest. That money is then "lent" to other branches of government whose sources of revenue are taxes on the same people. Therefor the only way to get back the money from the other branches of gov to SS to "give" back to the citizens is to tax them. And you don't have a problem with this?

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
There were plenty of other safe places to invest the social security trust fund money, while requiring Congress to either act fiscally responsible, or pay the price now, instead of putting the problem onto future generations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Junk bonds? The stock market? Pot bellies?

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think that we would have the 8.4 trillion dollar national debt, if our government had to physically come up with all the interest payments every year, in addition to retiring all the bonds after their 30 year life?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the fungibility of money, I'm not even sure that's a meaningful concept. The cause of the budget deficit is not the investment of the SS trust fund, it's the fact that the government spends more money than it takes in.

[ShakeZula06]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never quite understood why people find this practice objectionable? Do you think we ought to just rent out a big vault somewhere and maintain stacks upon stacks of physical banknotes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unheard of i know, but a viable option would be giving it back to the people they forcibly took it from.

This whole thread outlines how different people want the government to do different things with money, whether we shuld invest, go into deficit, create a surplus, if we spend it what we should spend it on for moral or economic reasons. How wonderful it would be if the government just gave it to it's rightful owners and had them do what they want with it?