I don't know the basics. PP v PFR

Vincent · #1 07-15-2006, 01:56 AM

No read on opponent. Hands like these make me realize that I don’t know the basics. Should I be routinely folding this flop?
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($97.85)
SB ($168.96)
Hero ($106.50)
UTG ($86.90)
MP ($93.10)
CO ($29.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
2 folds, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB (poster) raises to $4.5, Hero calls $4, CO folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($12) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($22) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero calls $5.

River: ($32) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $10, Hero calls $10.

Final Pot: $52

Al_Money · #2 07-15-2006, 02:02 AM

Either raise the flop or the turn, both of these bets are very weak. Shut down if called, unless he donkbets again.

DeliciousBass · #3 07-15-2006, 02:21 AM

*grunch*

From the tone of your post it sounds like you know enough to realize that this play is of the stinky type.

If you expected the limpers to call then this play is a maybe...if you don't have any read on the table than this hand should probably be headed back to the dealer...but it didn't so let's take a look at everything else.

The flop looks okay for us. If he was raising with two overcards we just took a decent lead in the hand. The call is probably fine here but you might want to consider a raise and try to end this now.

The turn card may have made his hand but it gives us a flush draw. He chooses to make the same bet that he made on the flop and since we didn't raise there I would want to represent the flush here and raise. As it stands we make another call and we have no idea where we are in the hand.

The river tosses another heart out there but we're sitting on the lowest possible flush. He sees the hearts and leads anyway. The pot isn't gigantic and we've blown all of our chances to grab it with the hand we have. My play might be too conservative for most but I'm going to finally put this hand where it belongs. Save the ten spot and look for a better spot.

Kowalski · #4 07-15-2006, 02:44 AM

PF is questionable but okay, I like to make a raise on this flop to try to take it down while the flop is reasonably safe, but our hand is so vulnerable. If he calls the flop raise, shut down.

Haiku · #5 07-15-2006, 02:48 AM

As long as you don't expect the limpers to 3-bet a PF call is good: your relative position to the raiser if CO/Button tag along isn't great but you're certainly getting set odds and you do have absolute position on him.

BalugaWhale · #6 07-15-2006, 02:51 AM

pf call is standard

Flop is marginal, raising/floating/folding are all options and depend on the villain. I probably like calling here.

Then, I raise the weak turn bet and, if I'm called, hope for a free showdown if I river the flush with a 4 kicker.