Bellagio 300-600: Play this Hand Against Schneids

Dynasty · #1 07-14-2006, 07:37 AM

I was out for one of my late night/early morning walks on the Strip earlier. I decided to stroll through the Bellagio (the Conservatory & Botanical Gardens are incredible right now). When I went through the poker room, I came across a black chip game on the main floor. That never happens except during the World Series of Poker. Just as I walked by, Schneids got involved in this hand.

The game is being played 8-handed.

The hand:

The first two players fold. "You" are next to act, pick up K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and raise. The next two players fold to Schneids on the Button. Schneids 3-bets. You call.

The flop is: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

You check and Schneids quickly checks behind you.

The turn is: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

You check and this time Schneids bets. You check-raise and Schneids 3-bets with no noticeable hesitation.

Your play?

How well/poorly do you think "you" played this hand?

brandon · #2 07-14-2006, 09:08 AM

Poor

Preflop is a 4 bet/cap. Lead the flop and take it from there. Is that too standard for 300/600?

I hate giving a free card on the flop. Looks like Schneids turned a set or a flopped a monster. Cant think of many hands we beat right now (QQ,JJ,QJ with the [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] draw) that he is 3 betting on that board.

The bigger problem is our hero underrepresented the strength of his hand. The turn checkraise is suspect. AA/AK wouldnt risk another free card and Scheinds knows this. Does that make calling down correct? Id muck my hand to the 3 bet on the turn, but I play against monkeys.

chaosuk · #3 07-14-2006, 09:48 AM

There's nothing wrong with playing this hand that way against a tricky opponent occasionally; pesonally I'd be surprised to see a flush here, I'd take evens 10-10 with a spade.

Paluka · #4 07-14-2006, 10:23 AM

I hate not 4 betting preflop.
If we are not planning on folding to the 3 bet, then I really hate our checkraise. I'd much rather bet this turn intending on calling a raise than checkraise intending to call a 3 bet.
If I were in Schneids spot, the only hands I would play this way would be AxKs or a big pair with a spade. This makes my checkraise with KK pointless, because he is never folding and sometimes 3 betting me.

chaosuk · #5 07-14-2006, 10:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I were in Schneids spot, the only hands I would play this way would be AxKs or a big pair with a spade. This makes my checkraise with KK pointless, because he is never folding and sometimes 3 betting me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make it pointless: if you cr the turn and are called down, then you are most likely winning. The 3 bet of course is another matter, and if it's high risk with say JJs then I'd agree discretion is the better part of valour. Besides, I agree you don't want to play this hand regularly this way.

chaosuk · #6 07-14-2006, 10:41 AM

I should add you are most likely winning if called down if you gave a slightly laggy tricky image. Certainly image dependent.

DcifrThs · #7 07-14-2006, 10:50 AM

this really depends on what schneids thinks of "me"

if he thinks im fairly easy to manipulate postflop then his range here gets a bit wider.

if he thinks im very tricky/aggressive, his line is a big big risk and i think he's more likely to have what he's representing.

as it stands, i think opening myself up to a 3bet on the turn from a strong player is nota good idea. his range is definately wider than the "big pair/AKs" though so against ONLY those hands a c'r is horrible. im fairly certain mikey can have more hands the worse he thinks i play and the more he thinks he can control me or the less he thinks i put him in tough spots.

personally, if i'm raising in EP (imagining now that it's barron vs. mikey) and he 3bets me, im 4 betting about 1/2 my range mixing it up a bit there so i may or may not 4 bet kings there. if i didn't cap id probably be giving up rather early here. it's very possible im in the lead, however, the # of outs he has when behind (unless it's specifically JJnospade or QQ no spade 88 no spade), and the amount by which im behind when i am (drawing slim/dead)warrants me basically allowing mikey to have this pot.

it may come down to me not putting in a single bet postflop.

back to the hand "i" played, id fold to the turn 3bet. and given how mikey plays, probably have c'folded the turn (instead of c'r) assuming he thinks about "you" close to the same way he thinks about me. there are just so few hands mikey has here (if any) that BET the turn PLANNING on folding to a raise that also checked teh flop.

Barron

chaosuk · #8 07-14-2006, 11:09 AM

if he typically bets the turn here (after checking the flop), then I couldn't conceive of passing Kings.

DcifrThs · #9 07-14-2006, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if he typically bets the turn here (after checking the flop), then I couldn't conceive of passing Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

name some hands he could have then...and they must be ones that are both worse than KK AND wont 3bet or better than KK and will fold to the raise.

Barron

Paluka · #10 07-14-2006, 11:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I were in Schneids spot, the only hands I would play this way would be AxKs or a big pair with a spade. This makes my checkraise with KK pointless, because he is never folding and sometimes 3 betting me.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't make it pointless: if you cr the turn and are called down, then you are most likely winning. The 3 bet of course is another matter, and if it's high risk with say JJs then I'd agree discretion is the better part of valour. Besides, I agree you don't want to play this hand regularly this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, it isn't pointless, but I think it is a losing play. You could easily be losing, and you open yourself up to being outplayed when you are winning.