QQ on KKx flop

sccrneo · #1 07-11-2006, 08:49 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

No reads on villain. Hasnt really stood out as overly bad or good. Assume typical fish.

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Is there any point to the river call? Probably could have given up to the turn check raise but I think the river should have been a fold as I dont see what he is 3betting preflop that I possibly beat.

cassette · #2 07-11-2006, 08:52 PM

It sucks but you gotta fold the river.

LeeroyJenkins · #3 07-11-2006, 09:08 PM

I'd cap the flop and fold the river.

Weatherhead03 · #4 07-11-2006, 10:07 PM

Cap PF and either fold to the C/R or fold the river. I personally fold to the C/R

bobhalford · #5 07-11-2006, 11:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Cap PF and either fold to the C/R or fold the river. I personally fold to the C/R

[/ QUOTE ]

MacGuyV · #6 07-11-2006, 11:59 PM

I cap PF but since you didn't the hand is easier to play.
Villian's flop check = AK I check the flop. Easy turn fold.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #7 07-12-2006, 02:27 AM

Bet the flop, check the turn, call the river, next hand.

bobhalford · #8 07-12-2006, 02:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the flop, check the turn, call the river, next hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

That looks like a good line. Allows you to get to showdown (and potentially spike a queen to suckout). SB checking and calling the flop is a warning sign, so when you check behind on the turn you have foiled his plans, and the most he will extract from you is 1.5BBs, plus you prevent him from trying to outplay you on the turn (however unlikely that is). Plus you occasionally spike a Q on the river.

danzasmack · #9 07-12-2006, 03:40 AM

*Edited cuz miles reads my posts better than i type them

Assuming "typical fish"

1) Cap preflop. I don't see any reason not to.
2) That's a terrible turn card. I still bet here and I really don't mind folding on the turn. I don't really like a turn check though, I don't see why we mind not taking this hand to showdown. If he was LAG it's a different story.

milesdyson · #10 07-12-2006, 03:46 AM

"I still bet here and I really don'y mind folding on the river."

huh? you mean fold the turn?

you check the turn just to get to showdown against a hand that is almost surely terrible or awesome. if you bet the turn it's either because you know he's going to check raise only the best hands and you have an easy fold or if you know he plays like a [censored] and will checkraise bluff here so you'll have an easy call down.

the nature of our hand w/ the flop texture means there's no way the guy can have many outs.

AT has 3 outs (queens make us a boat)
AQ combos are cut in half because we hold two Qs. these hands have 7 outs.
AJ has 5 outs.
all other hands basically either have us drawing to two outs or he is drawing to two outs.

for what its worth, i think the best line here is either (bet, check, call), (check, call, call), OR checking behind the flop and folding any non Q turn. of course i cant actually check behind and fold but he clearly has you owned when he checks the flop.