Pre-flop fold equity in SnGs....

[jackaaron]

Obviously you want to keep enough chips where you can raise, and give the person(s) left to act a mathematically good reason to fold unless they have a certain percentage of hands. Let's say that you want to keep a little more than X blinds to do this, and if you get at X or below, you just start pushing.

Now, my question deals with lower limits where players have a wider range of calling hands. Thus, a higher percentage of hands they'll call with. Is it okay to say that you would want to have X+2 or maybe higher at lower limits?

Example: In a 100.00 SnG, you don't allow yourself to go below 10bbs before you just start push/folding. But, in a 6.50 this might be about 14bbs.

Or, is this incorrect because they're calling with a wider range of hands at lower limits, and you benefit from that.

[Frinkenstein]

Pushbotting with 14 BB's is a little crazy...

The reason you push with 10 BB or less is that any reasonable raise pot commits you.

A 3X raise is still reasonable at the low limits even if you get called more often. One of the objectives of raising(when you have good cards) is to get more money in the pot.

[AliasMrJones]

The 10xBB push/fold like is not about FE. You have FE with 4xBB in many cases. The 10xBB push/fold line is about having enough chips to fold if someone re-raises. At some point you have so many chips invested in a raise that you have to call a re-raise no matter what so you might as well get all your chips in from the get-go and maximize your FE.

So...the 10xBB line is not dependent on opponent calling ranges or buy-in.

[Brad22]

It's also dependent on position and stack sizes, there are certain spots where it will be +EV to push if you have 4BB, 10BB or 14BB, but there will be others where it won't be.

[jackaaron]

Thanks.

I'm often raising with garbage, though. Especially when I'm getting cold decked (often).

But, what you're saying is that I don't want to make, for example, only a 4xbb raise with only 8bbs in my stack if I fear a reraise (I might as well push all in). I understand that.

When I think push/fold strategy, though, I'm not thinking of having good hands since I so often don't have any hands that are playable...I suppose if you're hoping for no call (mostly) then you're hoping that you have as much FE as possible, right?

Also, I'm thinking that the few bbs difference, even at the lower limits, don't make much difference. They're calling all ins w/10bbs just as often as they would with 14, I would assume (regarless of limit).

[mattak]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks.

I'm often raising with garbage, though. Especially when I'm getting cold decked (often).



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Why? If you are playing low buy in STT's then you do not need to "make moves". Play weak/tight early and make good ICM decisions late. Thats it, thats all you need to do to beat the 11's. I beleive that someone coined the term "fancy play syndrome" to describe some of the things you are doing.

[jackaaron]

I have done this like you describe, play weak/tight, push when I get down. I rarely win. I never win like that. Never. I know I sound aggitated, and I apologize, but this way of playing has never worked no matter how many times I've done it. And, I've really believed it would work in the past. Who knows, could be just a very long, very bad run in low limit SnGs.

BUT...when I loosen up, and established a LAG image, I generally get paid off by the lower limit players, come into the last 5-6 as CL, or close, and steal many blinds/antes. Then, once ITM, I steal even more, and get HU with the CL, then close. However, this is supposedly the wrong way to play, and I try to change it to a much easier way (it is a very hard way to play, and obviously it doensn't work often) which would be to play hyper tight early, hyper aggro late...but, when I get to teh late, I never have enough chips that anyone gives a crap about my raises.

Again, I apolgize for sounding so aggravated. I just am though. I can't figure out what's right, and what's wrong. Half the time I think I do something wrong, I go back and study it, and find that it was right, and the other situation applies as well.

[OneTwoThreeROBOT]

If you're struggling with low limit SNGs, it's probably because you try to play a LAG style. Seriously, low limit SNGs are easy to beat, but you'll only hang yourself by getting fancy.

[guitarizt]

jackaaron I tried playing the "right" way for the longest time on pokerroom's 5 handed turbo sngs. After a lot of losing I finally said screw it I'm gonna start over from scratch because this just isn't working.

So I had to relearn how to play these. After playing a ton of these 5 handed turbo sngs I still don't have it down 100%, but I found out that pushing when the blinds go up is not the way to go. Everyone and anyone pushes and calls with anything in these and it's just +ev to wait out the craziness for as long as possible.

I think the fact that mutiple people have less than 10 BBs and the fact that these don't last very long at all plays a huge part in the change of strategy.

You can't play too tight in the first few levels imho. I still play tight, but trouble hands like KJ are really profitable because people play anything.

In short, you obviously still need to know what to push and when, but I you definately have to be flexible in your thinking and just use common sense. I started just trying to play good poker with the mindset that I need to finish in the money at least 50% of the time, and my results improved greatly.

[blackize]

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5 handed turbo sngs

[/ QUOTE ]

Tight early and pushbot later is definitely the wrong way to play shorthanded SNGs.