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#1
07-07-2006, 05:34 PM
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Protecting Hand Out of Position
Hello All,
I am a MSNL and HSNL player who just started picking up Limit. I just started this week and am averaging around $40/hr or 20BB/hr playing 1/2Limit. I have run into a problem with trying to protect my hands against weak passive players out of position. I have been using the check raise on the flop as well as the turn but a lot of times when I am out of position and check intending to check raise they take the free card behind me. Therefore, since most players at this level are weak passive I have just continued to bet my hand 90% of the time unless I have a pretty good idea they may bet if I check. Even though most do not pay any attention to pot odds, pot equity, implied odds at this level I feel like I am leaving my self exposed by giving my opponent proper odds to draw even though he probably does not give that a consideration. Any advice that you guys have used in similar situations would be greatly appreciated! 
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#2
07-07-2006, 05:43 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
Betting out is what I tend to do unless like you said I know they are more aggressive and will bet. Another option is waiting for the turn to bet b/c of the double bet size. You will risk giving them a free card but in some massive pots sometimes waiting for the turn is the only way to protect your hand.
good luck
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#3
07-07-2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
a few things:
- Sometimes you can protect your hand but sometimes there is no way to protect your hand. You have to just pray it holds up. Start thinking in terms of equity instead of always "protecting your hand". While you want to protect your hand when you can (by checkraising for ex.)the whole "protect my hand" seems to be more of a NL concept. If you have an edge you want to keep putting money in the pot, A flush draw is usually not folding no matter what you do. Think of it as putting money into the pot when your gonna win 65% of the time. The 35% you lose there's nothing you can do. I would advise reading SSHE and posting some hands. - Nice winrate but I hope you realize that's not sustainable.
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#4
07-07-2006, 06:26 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
[ QUOTE ]
a few things: - Sometimes you can protect your hand but sometimes there is no way to protect your hand. You have to just pray it holds up. Start thinking in terms of equity instead of always "protecting your hand". While you want to protect your hand when you can (by checkraising for ex.)the whole "protect my hand" seems to be more of a NL concept. If you have an edge you want to keep putting money in the pot, A flush draw is usually not folding no matter what you do. Think of it as putting money into the pot when your gonna win 65% of the time. The 35% you lose there's nothing you can do. I would advise reading SSHE and posting some hands. - Nice winrate but I hope you realize that's not sustainable. [/ QUOTE ] it is if he is 10 tabling O.o
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#5
07-07-2006, 07:48 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
Up until about 2/4 my approach was the same - bet,bet,bet. Against the average micro player it was profitable. You really can't protect your hand against them, so you have to bet. I can't remember which Sklansky book it was in but remember that even if your bet still gives them correct odds to call, it's still better than the infinite odds they get when you check.
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#6
07-07-2006, 08:05 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] a few things: - Sometimes you can protect your hand but sometimes there is no way to protect your hand. You have to just pray it holds up. Start thinking in terms of equity instead of always "protecting your hand". While you want to protect your hand when you can (by checkraising for ex.)the whole "protect my hand" seems to be more of a NL concept. If you have an edge you want to keep putting money in the pot, A flush draw is usually not folding no matter what you do. Think of it as putting money into the pot when your gonna win 65% of the time. The 35% you lose there's nothing you can do. I would advise reading SSHE and posting some hands. - Nice winrate but I hope you realize that's not sustainable. [/ QUOTE ] it is if he is 10 tabling O.o [/ QUOTE ] how absurd. that's like saying it's easy to keep driving at 300 mph if you have 6 cars. ----------------------- anyway. if the pot is really big, sometimes you risk that free card in an effort to protect your hand since betting out won't matter anyway. in those situations, betting out only makes sense if you have zero reason to believe anyone would bet at all, in which case it becomes a bet for value.
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#7
07-07-2006, 08:09 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
[ QUOTE ]
how absurd. that's like saying it's easy to keep driving at 300 mph if you have 6 cars. [/ QUOTE ] Try as I might, not only can I not make this analogy make sense, I can't even come up with a way to pretend it does long enough to argue about it. Congratulations.
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#8
07-07-2006, 09:05 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] how absurd. that's like saying it's easy to keep driving at 300 mph if you have 6 cars. [/ QUOTE ] Try as I might, not only can I not make this analogy make sense, I can't even come up with a way to pretend it does long enough to argue about it. Congratulations. [/ QUOTE ] yessss, i am sooo good. if you care, here's an explanation i guess. someone said that the OPs wr is unsustainable (b/c it's too high), and someone else replied, "it is (sustainable, i'm guessing) if you're 10 tabling" as if adding more tables increases win rate somehow.
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#9
07-07-2006, 10:22 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] how absurd. that's like saying it's easy to keep driving at 300 mph if you have 6 cars. [/ QUOTE ] Try as I might, not only can I not make this analogy make sense, I can't even come up with a way to pretend it does long enough to argue about it. Congratulations. [/ QUOTE ] yessss, i am sooo good. if you care, here's an explanation i guess. someone said that the OPs wr is unsustainable (b/c it's too high), and someone else replied, "it is (sustainable, i'm guessing) if you're 10 tabling" as if adding more tables increases win rate somehow. [/ QUOTE ] The winrate was quoted by $/hr. Multitabling does add $/hr, otherwise we wouldn't do it.
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#10
07-07-2006, 11:58 PM
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Re: Protecting Hand Out of Position
[ QUOTE ]
Up until about 2/4 my approach was the same - bet,bet,bet. Against the average micro player it was profitable. You really can't protect your hand against them, so you have to bet. I can't remember which Sklansky book it was in but remember that even if your bet still gives them correct odds to call, it's still better than the infinite odds they get when you check. [/ QUOTE ] I agree and that I believe comes from "Small Stakes Holdem" Thanks for the advice!
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