a little aggressive on the turn with JJ

freedom18 · #1 07-02-2006, 01:00 AM

I have reads on villan as 14/10/1/106
my line of thinking with this hand goes with raising for a free showdown, I dont exactly know which hands im against but do you fold this hand just because an overcard comes?

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
3 folds, MP2 raises, 2 folds, hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP2 caps, hero calls (8.5:1).

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9.5SB, 2 players)
MP2 bets, hero raises, MP2 calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.75BB, 2 players)
MP2 bets, hero raises, MP2 calls.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (10.75BB, 2 players)
MP2 checks, hero checks.

Results:
Final pot: 10.75BB

dchz · #2 07-02-2006, 01:06 AM

i think you played thsi fine..

but if your goal is for a cheap showdown i think a call down would give yout he cheapest option, if he 3-bets turn then what do you do?

freedom18 · #3 07-02-2006, 01:09 AM

i think i will fold to a 3bet on this turn.. his AF is very low

i do this play quite a bit since i feel alot of people like to take donk shots at the aggressor as i fold more so often to turns in which i dont hit and get donked on in small pots

dchz · #4 07-02-2006, 01:25 AM

well as i just said on AIM to you...

would you rather see the showdown for the same price?

tyler_cracker · #5 07-02-2006, 01:31 AM

Fold the turn. What is left in his range that you're ahead of?

freedom18 · #6 07-02-2006, 01:33 AM

ya after looking back the ranges that he may have consist of AA KK QQ JJ TT 99 AK so majority of the time i am beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Romulus141 · #7 07-02-2006, 01:52 AM

*Grunch*

Pre-flop - I like. At this point, the range I put our tight villian on is AA-TT, AK, AQ, and KQ, with discounts for AJ, KQ, KJ, and maybe even JQ (given he's raising 10% of the 14% for VPIP).
Flop - I like. He's a little passive, but I think we can heavily discount the possibility of TT by this point.
Turn - With a tight guy like this who seems relatively passive post-flop, his donk on the turn tells me that he has something he likes. So, I'm narrowing down to AA - JJ, AK, KQ, and some discounts for KJ, JQ, AJ, and AQ.

Ahead: JQ, AJ, AQ
Behind: AA, KK, QQ, AK, KQ, KJ
Tie: JJ

This isn't looking terribly favorable, especially since the ahead hands are discounted possibilities. We're probably behind more often than we are ahead. I'm not sure I even want to show this down at this point, especially since the "ahead" hands still make us vulnerable and they're discounted possibilities. I'm pretty sure he spiked a king or has a better PP than us (AA most likely in that case).

Given this situation, I think I'm folding to the turn bet actually. I just don't really see us winning enough.

The big conclusion is though, I believe raising is even worse than calling. If we are 3-bet, that's horrible. If you must show this down, just call down. The free showdown play won't always work (he may donk the river), and you don't want to be 3-bet. So yeah, I see this as Fold >>> Call > Raise.