nut straight, three hearts, 235BB behind versus 64/12

[terp]

this guy is a [censored] clown. he and the other clown to my left (70/8) have been trash talking in chat a lot. i've pretty much kept quiet except for the occasional nh.

the table seems to respect me as i've had no trouble taking pots down preflop or with one or two barrels. i've basically shown down two hands - nut flush and flopped top set. of my stack, most of it came from these hands.

this is probably the hardest river decision i've ever had to make. on the one hand, i have the nut straight versus a maniac. on the other, there are three hearts and he played it like a draw. i have the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and i think it's more likely that he's bluffing given stack sizes and the likelihood that i am probably folding without a flush. basically i think he knows that no worse hand should ever call. as well, i have the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] but i've seen him chase flushes with any two suited cards. he's tended to make value raises with flushes in position, but i've not seen how he handles a rivered flush OOP.

i worked hard to build this stack for a situation like this. the only other time i saw him push all-in was when he coldcalled a raise and a min3bet to $9 with J8 and pushed on an 8 high flop. everyone folded and he showed. i was after him and i had $195 at the time, so he's definitely willing to put his stack at risk with nonnut hands.

that is all i have to go on....

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $32.10
UTG+1: $69.40
CO: $318.37
CAterp: $272.21
SB: $245.28
BB: $94.15

Pre-flop: (6 players) CAterp is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">CAterp raises to $6</font>, 3 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($14.5, 2 players)
CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">CAterp bets $9</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($32.5, 2 players)
CO checks, <font color="#cc0000">CAterp bets $23</font>, CO calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($78.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">CO is all-in $280.37</font>

[AZplaya]

Jeez bro your not kidding, this is a tough one. I really think that an argument can be made either way, but I'm leaning towards a fold, and here is why:

1. Your not getting very good pot odds.
2. Villian played this hand exactly like a flush draw.
3. Villian is 64/12, I think you will find more +EV situations to get your stack in against him.

Still not sure though, because this is a great scare card to bluff, Villian has shown he is a lagtard, and the only 2 hands you've shown were the nuts, so Villian has to know your folding most hands here. Man, I wish I could be more help, but this one's really tough IMO.

[maccamack]

Horrible - your read is suggesting he has a flush here - what? 50% of the time? Which kind of suggests a call.
He looks like he was drawing - but to what - does J9o do this as well? or AJ? or is it a badly played KQ?

I never get that good of a read to call this - so I fold. On the upside, if he is willing to bluff this - he is gonna give you another opportunity to take his stack sooner or later. Live to fight another battle is my call on this (fold).

[tojx]

I wouldn't put him on a flush draw because you have the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I don't think he would have called your PFR with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I'd put him on KQs or a mid PP semibluffing (although this would have been really badly played)
Anyway, because of the read on him I'd probably call. Against any normal or unknown player I'd fold.

[flo]

With stacks this deep and a maniac image i call a pf raise with J9s all day long. Is that a horrible mistake?

[maccamack]

I don't think a maniac/laggy opponent needs to have the nut flush draw to draw to the flush - so in this case, just because he doesn't have the ace doesn't mean he doesn't have a flush. He could be calling with 87h for all we know. IMO - A key thing to remember about villians is just because it doesn't make sense to you, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to them..

[therockofgibraltar]

in position, no. out of position, I don't know [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[flo]

It depends on the villain: the weaker he plays, the less i need the advantage of being in position. If he folds to a checkraise or bet on a dry flop, any two cards are good [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[epdaws]

CA,

Obv with normal stacks, this is a basic call. Your possession of the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is a big factor.

More than anything else, this is kind of a Blink! moment, when you need to trust your instinct. The feeling in your gut is often correct; however, being faced with a decision for 234 BBs without the nuts might give anyone an instant case of dry heaves.

If this is the kind of Villain who can bluff a scare card like that, call him down. J9 is certainly possible, as is a hand like KQ or even KT. Bad Villains go insane with two-pair hands sometimes.

Definitely an interesting situation. Against this guy, I'm making the call, but I can't tell you I'd make the call every time. I'm feeling euphoric lately.

[bnorthro]

I don't think the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in your hand makes nearly as much difference as everyone is making it out to. This guy is 70/8, I think if he plays a flush like this, he won't need the nut flush to do it, especially because your hand looks like a made hand all the way.

I don't know if I'm real hot on the turn bet. This guy probably isn't folding a better hand or a FD, I'd consider a free card. I think this guy plays J9 or AJ like this, but a huge push sure looks like a bluff here (ie not a straight or flush). I would expect a rivered hand to go for a check raise or a large value bet, like pot sized, but this bet is 4xPot. It just kinda seems like he doesn't want a call....

FWIW I've seen someone with similar (though higher PFR #s) play bottom pair on a monotone board the same way vs a PFRer with no FD.

Interested in results...