Two AK Overcard Hands @ 1/2

Sirasoni · #1 06-30-2006, 05:44 AM

I thought I understood this subject to a decent extent but doing a review on my own sessions made me worry because I seemed to be putting myself in a lot of uncomfortable positions. How am I playing each street here? Am I folding in the right spots, do I find different lines, etc?

Hand 1:

CO is 13/7/4.14 over 300 hands

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP2 folds.

River: (11.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

I feel that capping flop induced me to peel turn here, getting 10-to-1 as well. Is this wrong thinking, seeing as how I'm probably not even drawing to a full six outs?

Hand 2:

MP2 is 26/11/3 with 6 Flop AF over 100 hands

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.25 BB

Raised for the free card, plus value considering I'm probably drawing to 10 outs now. Didn't know how to react to his stop n go however.

Thanks in advance [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

NIX · #2 06-30-2006, 06:24 AM

In hand 1, I would figure we're beat on the flop to an overpair. You clearly said you have a strong hand and the villian is coming after you. If you give the Villian a range of JJ+, you have around 4 outs and just under the odds to call that if MP2 folds, just over if he calls. With how slim that is, I'd probably be folding on the turn myself although I'd say it's close.

In hand 2, preflop and flop are how I'd play it. This is probably a problem of mine, but I'd be tempted to call this one down. When he stop and goes, I can see a semibluff with an A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] type hand. When you don't raise the turn, he may assume you just have big cards and be trying to fold you (or is valuebetting). Even though his numbers say he's quite agro, I'm not sure if he would be semibluffing 1 in 4 times to warrant the river call though, so without a read, I could live with the river fold .

Bruce D · #3 06-30-2006, 06:49 AM

*grunch*

First one is fine. Even if you think you only have 4 outs, you are only a 10.42?-1 underdog. Its a marginal call, but not a huge mistake IMO.

Second I fold the turn. MP2 loves his hand and you need 8 outs getting 5-1 on your money.

Fantam · #4 06-30-2006, 08:39 AM

You seem to be overplaying your overcards in these hand examples.

Hand 1
Although AKs is a premium starting hand, I would only have called the preflop 3-bet from the BB.

You would then have been in a good position to check/raise either of your 2 opponents if you paired your A or K on the flop.

I would also have check/called the flop. One of your 2 opponents was likely to have an overpair, but you had enough outs to make calling worthwhile with your OC's and bdfd.

With a 10 BB pot, I would also have called the turn bet. However, if the pot had not been as large, then it would have made it easier to fold.

Hand 2
You possibly had 10 outs with your OC's and gut-shot on the flop, but I would not have raised your opponents bet.

It was more likely that you were either splitting with another AK or behind an overpair, than that you had the best hand on the flop.

Also, even if all your outs were good, you only had about a 2:1 chance of improving by the river, against one opponent.

So, I dont think that your flop raise was for value.

I also doubt that your flop raise would have bought you a free card, if your opponent had a better hand.

The stop n go suggests to me that your opponent had an overpair, although I think that he then should have 3-bet the flop.

I would also have called the turn and folded the river unimproved.

Nick C · #5 06-30-2006, 09:14 AM

Hand 1: It seems all right. The turn situation on the turn is difficult, and you aren't even closing the action, but sometimes you'll have 6 outs, so folding isn't easy either. One problem is that MP2 may be holding one of your outs, though.

CO is aggressive enough postflop, by the way, that I'm actually not sure he had you beat, although he probably did.

Hand 2: I would take this to showdown against someone who's got a 6 flop AF so far.

I could go either way on the flop raise, but it's not really that deceptive. Villain probably sees the wheel draw (in fact, he may have one himself).

TBone · #6 06-30-2006, 03:30 PM

Hand 1:

Don't like the preflop cap. You're out of position, and the only thing you could accomplish is knocking out MP2. However, MP2 was the original raiser, so I'm not thinkig MP2 is going away here. You're essentially taking control of the hand by capping, and then compelled to bet the flop regardless if it hits you. If you're last to act, cap, first to act, I'd say call the 3-bet.

Noone's going anywhere on the flop due to pot odds and the low cards on the flop. Everyone probably has overcards if not an overpair, no reason to bet here out of position.

Turn is close pot-odds wise, depending on your outs. I'm not confident that they're all good with MP2 still to act behind you. Even though mathematically it's close, I probably fold here.

Hand 2:

Played well, I'd put opponent on a pocket pair such as 88, 99, or TT given his action on all streets.

T

Sirasoni · #7 06-30-2006, 06:29 PM

Thanks for the responses everyone.

In hand 1, are we arguing capping AKs here all the time or just against this 13/7 player? I make this cap 100% of the time but I can see why capping could be bad against a 13/7.

In hand 2 I think we could argue a raise here on the turn occasionally if we have a read on villain that he is able to lay down 77 etc. I think it's rare though, at these stakes.

crablegs33 · #8 06-30-2006, 06:34 PM

agreed on hand 2: if i have a read on villain that he is a thinking opponent capable of dropping on of those hands i'll pop the bastard again on the turn