10NL, don't cbet here? (simple question)

[Brent.]

Uhh, I'm not familiar with this guy but it's 10NL so c-betting and "repping" AA or KK here doesn't really work, if he hit this flop he's calling. He raised UTG, called my RR...I'm figuring he's either got AK/AQ/AJ or AA-JJ, possibly TT/99...sooooooo, check behind here, right? Weak sauce?

B-A-N-A-N-A-S

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $17.60
Hero: $13.50
MP1: $14.85
MP2: $11.05
MP3: $4.60
CO: $7.55
Button: $8.80
SB: $10.20
BB: $15.40

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $0.35</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $0.9</font>, 7 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($1.95, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($1.95, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $1.95</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $1.95 returned to UTG.

Results:
Final pot: $1.95

[detonum]

Everybody hits the flop only 1/3 of the time (if you don't have a pair). Just bet out on the flop unless he is a calling station, slow down on the turn if called.

[notevenhere]

Wow, you played this way too weakly.

If you made a bet on the flop, I wouldn't call it a C-Bet. I'd call it a regular old bet. You are in position and were checked to. A C-bet is betting when YOU whiffed the flop. In this case, you're betting because HE whiffed the flop. You should bet this even if you accidently raised PF with 72 offsuit. In reality, you raised PF with AKo, which now give you 2 overcards to the board, a straight draw, and a backdoor flush draw. If you are checked to with AK, you didn't whiff this flop. You HIT this flop.

Now on the turn, Villain is likely betting it because your flop check screams to him that you whiffed the flop.

You simply cannot play AK like this in position post flop. You're giving away a TON of the value that AK gives you.

Flushy board with 2 high connected cards, you better make it a pot sized bet on the flop.

[Gelford]

I have no idea of how 10NL plays, but I'd play it the same way most likely

[Brent.]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, you played this way too weakly.

If you made a bet on the flop, I wouldn't call it a C-Bet. I'd call it a regular old bet. You are in position and were checked to. A C-bet is betting when YOU whiffed the flop. In this case, you're betting because HE whiffed the flop.

Now on the turn, Villain is likely betting it because your flop check screams to him that you whiffed the flop.

You simply cannot play AK like this in position post flop. You're giving away a TON of the value that AK gives you.

Flushy board with 2 high connected cards, you better make it a pot sized bet on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious what hands you think Villain is raising UTG and calling my reraise with that I can beat (or make fold at 10NL)?

[maccamack]

I bet $1.95 on the flop - if called (you won't get called the majority of the time), you generally get the turn and river for free - which will be good for this hand.

If I was your opponent I'd bet into you on the turn with any two cards.

[avfletch]

In my experience you'll see a lot of people raising medium pocket pairs then calling a reraise for set value (whether its there or not is another matter of course).

I'd also add that I probably reraise a bit more preflop. This is only about 2.5x his bet so you're offering him pretty good odds to call and see if he can make a big hand.

Do you do the same with AA/KK etc?

[notevenhere]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious what hands you think Villain is raising UTG and calling my reraise with that I can beat (or make fold at 10NL)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I edited my above post while you responded, so I am gonna post the info I added.

You should bet this even if you accidently raised PF with 72 offsuit. In reality, you raised PF with AKo, which now give you 2 overcards to the board, a straight draw, and a backdoor flush draw. If you are checked to with AK, you didn't whiff this flop. You HIT this flop.

[Gelford]

Bet bet bet goes the advice .. yet this is 10NL, and while I have no Idea how it plays, I have a suspecicion that pf ranges are fairly wide and villians are passive, but willing to call you down if they have caught a piece of the flop.

While fit or fold poker will get you slaugthered at higher stakes, it might not be a bad default strategy at 10NL

[notevenhere]

Forget for a moment, what two cards you are holding. Based on the pre-flop sequence of events, you have fold equity against ALL possible hands except: AA/KK/QQ/JJ/66.

The FE you have differs depending on his hand. But your FE vs any pocket pair of 10 and under is absolutely huge. Even vs AQ you have some amount of FE.

Again, the above is true regardless of what hand you hold. If you now tell me to consider that you are holding AKo. This means that even if you are behind right at this moment, you have a ton of outs. Eight of those outs give you the top pair. Four of those outs make your hand better than a set on the turn, which will often mean you stack the Villain. Nevermind the backdoor draw to the 2nd nut (and even 100% nuts if A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] falls) flush.

All of this adds up to coming in for a pot sized raise on the flop. I believe this is a raise you make, no matter what limit you are playing. This raise should be so basic, that it should almost be learned by muscle memory.

[ QUOTE ]
Bet bet bet goes the advice .. yet this is 10NL, and while I have no Idea how it plays, I have a suspecicion that pf ranges are fairly wide and villians are passive, but willing to call you down if they have caught a piece of the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This argument holds true if we are on a pure bluff. But we are not. This is at worst, a semi-bluff on our part. We are ahead a good % of the time at the flop.

In addition, the wider the PF range of the Villain is, the better raising here becomes.