Intersting hand that I liked, 1/2 FR

[bravos1]

Found a super juicy LPP 1/2 table at FT 2 nights ago and totally forgot about this hand until I reviewed part of the session this morning. I'm having problems with the converter right now, so will post it by hand. Let me know your thoughts.

All players at this table are pretty LP (table avg was somewhere around 50/3)

9 handed 1/2 game

Hero dealt : J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button

UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, HJ calls, CO calls, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, rest call like the LPs they are

(Pot 16 SBs) Flop 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
all check to Hero who checks behind

(Pot 8 BBs) Turn Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB folds, rest call, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>, all call

(pot 22 BBs) river 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
all check, Hero checks behind

Hero get ridiculed by at least 4 fish and proceeds to take about 20BB in the next 75 hands since no one respected my raises.. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Thoughts? Do you play it differently? How so?

[milesdyson]

pfr is great

there were 6 players in on the turn with you. at some point you have to eventually take into account that some of your outs are gone. i mean it would be nice to think no one also had two diamonds (let alone a better diamond draw) and no one had gutshots like KT 8T J8 or the same oesd as you.

your turn raise represents QQ or 99 to be honest. they all think you have a set. so imo your implied odds are shot to [censored] by the raise. is it +ev? obviously. is it better than not thinning the field and getting to put a raise in on the river? not sure, but i dont think it's better. doesnt really matter though, it's not like you'll see this situation much.

[KOTLP]

I just don't see the point of raising the turn. You won't get SB to fold, why not encourage as many callers as possible? If you knew ahead of time they would all cold call two bets, then sure, why not.

[milesdyson]

everyone already called one bet. a turn raise traps the field.

[Quester]

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't see the point of raising the turn. You won't get SB to fold, why not encourage as many callers as possible? If you knew ahead of time they would all cold call two bets, then sure, why not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since he's last to act, all the loose-passives have already put in 1 bet. They wouldn't fold for 1 more. This is a raise for value.

[Buzz-cp]

the more i think about it, I like it better. a lot of them may fold their missed gutshot / not paired kicker when we hit on the river. may as well get some money now.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't see the point of raising the turn. You won't get SB to fold, why not encourage as many callers as possible? If you knew ahead of time they would all cold call two bets, then sure, why not.

[/ QUOTE ]

My turn raise is because I have a good sized equity edge here and am in position. No one has to call 2 cold as everyone has already called one bet from the SB. I do not want the SB to fold, nor anyone else as it hurts my EV. I am assuming here that most will call this raise for only one more bet. Why do you think this will make someone fold.

Miles: I agree with everything you said here except I doubt anyone puts me on QQ. Even horrible players would expect me to c-bet that flop w/ QQ. 99 is a possibility though if I were to suck at poker [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

I also agree that my edge is not as large as it appears, but is still pretty sizable w/ the OESFD, and the FD being to the 3rd NF. My thoughts on the turn were that if the flush card came or to a lesser extent, the straight, I would possible not get as many bets if any from a hand like TPW-GK.

[KOTLP]

Oops, I misread your OP, thought you were second to act on the turn for some reason, my bad. I think it's well played.

[tyler_cracker]

Can someone explain to me how the preflop raise works?

Once upon a time, i believed that since we have a hand that is sometimes going to flop a huge hand or a draw to a huge hand, we want to get more money in the pot for those times when we hit that big flop. I would raise here with things like JTs or 66.

But then i posted a hand where i tried it, and was told that a raise preflop is bad because i am effectively doubling the implied odds i need to make the preflop raise a +EV move.

Since OP is pulling this move from LP, he has the anciallary benefits of frequently getting a free turn card, but how do we square the preflop raise against the doubled implied odds problem?

And furthermore, is there something qualitatively different about a hand like JTs vs. a hand like 66 for the purposes of this question?

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
And furthermore, is there something qualitatively different about a hand like JTs vs. a hand like 66 for the purposes of this question?

[/ QUOTE ]

JTs has many more playable flops than 66.