Hand Ruling 5/5 NL game

Andrew Karpinski · #1 06-28-2006, 11:19 AM

There are two players in this hand. They are both fish; fish #1 is a black guy that keeps buying in for $100 and going all in at the first semi reasonable opportunity (J10+ish). Fish #2 is some tourist type who will call big bets with a marginal hand.

On the turn fish #2 hits his flush and makes a 1/3 pot bet, which fish #1 calls with a pair and a gutshot (no flush draw) (he was showing me his cards when this happened, and the fish who hit the flush is pretty easy to read). River fish #1 who likes to go all in, goes all in, and other fish calls. All in dude shows his cards, and the other guy tables his king high flush in a proud manner. His king stays face up on the table, but his other card bounces and lands face down on top of the muck, but it is VERY easily recognized, and the dealer IMMEDIATELY places his finger on it.

Naturally, the floor is called.

What should his decision be?

There is a possibility I am mis-remembering things, and the card did not land on the muck, it landed on the deck. Still easily recognizable, dealer still put his finger on it. Does this change anything?

mrkilla · #2 06-28-2006, 11:28 AM

If both cards were exposed (or trying to be) then the hand is live. But you were Canada, so it will become floor dependant [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

LasVegasMichael · #3 06-28-2006, 11:30 AM

Okay, two things here. One is what I think the floor decision was, and two what I think the floor decision should have been.

1. I'm guessing the floor decision was to retrieve the hand, and pay the person with the best hand (the K high flush). He had the best hand, and his accidental flickering of the hand should not cost him the pot, especially since he legitimately had the best hand (floor's thinking).

2. HOWEVER, this is a BIG per peeve of mine. I HATE the showboating A-HOles that hurl their winng cards to the center instead of placing them faceup in front of them like any other civilized 12 year old. What is with the theatrics of these punks that think that just because they made a double gutshot that they earned the right to throw, hurl, and fancifully flip their cards to further show off the fact that they actually have the winning hand. The hand should have been dead, period, and everyone should have pointed and laughed at the grandstander.

END OF RANT.

bobman0330 · #4 06-28-2006, 11:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
HOWEVER, this is a BIG per peeve of mine. I HATE the showboating A-HOles that hurl their winng cards to the center instead of placing them faceup in front of them like any other civilized 12 year old. What is with the theatrics of these punks that think that just because they made a double gutshot that they earned the right to throw, hurl, and fancifully flip their cards to further show off the fact that they actually have the winning hand. The hand should have been dead, period, and everyone should have pointed and laughed at the grandstander.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow.

LasVegasMichael · #5 06-28-2006, 11:38 AM

What can I say? It touched a nerve. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

NT! · #6 06-28-2006, 11:54 AM

I would hope fish #2 wins because fish #1 is obv going to reload.

NT

SheridanCat · #7 06-28-2006, 12:03 PM

I hope the floor retrieved the card from the muck (or wherever) and the hand played out as it should.

However, I saw something very similar happen at a 4/8 game at the Bellagio a couple years ago or so, and the floor person ruled the hand dead. The player did put his cards down too hard - but not crazy throwing hard - and one card got away and cartwheeled into the muck face down. While cartwheeling, a few of us saw the card clearly and he held the winner.

Pscam10 · #8 06-28-2006, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
2. HOWEVER, this is a BIG per peeve of mine. I HATE the showboating A-HOles that hurl their winng cards to the center instead of placing them faceup in front of them like any other civilized 12 year old. What is with the theatrics of these punks that think that just because they made a double gutshot that they earned the right to throw, hurl, and fancifully flip their cards to further show off the fact that they actually have the winning hand. The hand should have been dead, period, and everyone should have pointed and laughed at the grandstander.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you crazy? Isn't the rule that the card can be retrived as long as it is easily recognizeable? I may be wrong, but if the dealer put his finger immediately on the card in question then it should still be live...

LasVegasMichael · #9 06-28-2006, 01:42 PM

First of all, no that it not the rule. In most cardrooms (rules can vary), once a hand is in/on the muck) regardless of recognizability, it is dead, period. The dealer should not protect the hand for the player. That is the players job, not the dealers.

Morons that showboat their winning hand is the equivalent of slowrolling in my opinion, hence my rant.

Andrew Karpinski · #10 06-28-2006, 02:01 PM

The floor made the ruling that the hand was live, and I commended him infront of the table for it, and many players agreed. Whenever possible, the best hand should be awarded the pot, this is fundamental to all rulings.

Also, I don't think he was trying to be a douche about it, I think the card just slipped. He was a pretty nice guy.