Pontoon confuses the hell out of me

Smelly · #1 06-26-2006, 12:17 PM

Dealer wins on ties, five card hands, etc?

I sawon here that it's a more +EV game than blackjack. so i'm clearing the signup bonus on littlewoods and i notice pontoon after i've been getting eaten alive at blackjack. i find a strat card for pontoon:

And it confuses me. So if I get dealt a hard 15 then I'm supposed to just stay? I would always do this and dealer would get a 16 or 17 and I'd lose. And if I tied they took my money as well.

If I had a hand of Ace-7-2 then should I be doubling as the Ace-9 on the chart says or staying on my soft 20? I don't think I understand the game fundamentals so I'm going back to blackjack till someone can explain it to me.

And just checking, Littlewoods isn't a rigged casino is it?

Dave Coulier · #2 06-26-2006, 12:29 PM

Pontoon does take some time to get used to. I would suggest playing minimum bet until you do get the hang of it.

About the Ace/7/2, yes you should be doubling down there. Why stand on a soft 20 when you can double down and still get a 20 ?

As for standing on a hard 15..just follow the strategy card. Its correct even though its completely different from what you learn in Blackjack.

Smelly · #3 06-26-2006, 12:30 PM

thanks

How is this more +EV than blackjack though? Just because of the 2:1 payout compared to 3:2 and because of the five-card trick?

Also is it really worth it playing pontoon instead of blackjack? It has a .0011 edge compared to .0050. For the bonus I'm clearing now it would be worth 2 extra pounds in EV on a 625 pound WR.

lala · #4 06-26-2006, 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
thanks

How is this more +EV than blackjack though? Just because of the 2:1 payout compared to 3:2 and because of the five-card trick?

Also is it really worth it playing pontoon instead of blackjack? It has a .0011 edge compared to .0050. For the bonus I'm clearing now it would be worth 2 extra pounds in EV on a 625 pound WR.

[/ QUOTE ]

The edge should actually be .0017, and no its not worth playing over blackjack for the bonus you're currently doing. I think it's more EV because of that 2:1 and 5 card but obviously a lot more variance. I really only play it when I get bored of BJ.

BigF · #5 06-26-2006, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
thanks

How is this more +EV than blackjack though? Just because of the 2:1 payout compared to 3:2 and because of the five-card trick?

Also is it really worth it playing pontoon instead of blackjack? It has a .0011 edge compared to .0050. For the bonus I'm clearing now it would be worth 2 extra pounds in EV on a 625 pound WR.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't like the game, then the extra EV is not worth it. As you pointed out, BJ pays 2:1 instead of 3:2 and five card trick pays 2:1. And we know it's still a -EV game. Therefore, intuitively it has higher variance than Blackjack.

You lose 5 times in a row way more often than Blackjack. Why is that? Because when you win sometimes you get paid 2:1 and sometimes you are almost guaranteed to DOUBLE and get paid 2:1 (say you have A-2-7-A), but when you lose you always lose 1:1 on one hand. That means you would have to lose more often in order for the game to be slightly -EV.

ImsaKidd · #6 06-26-2006, 05:28 PM

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If you don't like the game, then the extra EV is not worth it.

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Doing casino bonuses is not about liking the games, it is about making a profit. Pontoon allows more profit, so it is better.

321Mike · #7 06-26-2006, 12:36 PM

The correct strategy in pontoon seems strange at first because you wind up losing a greater percentage of hands versus blackjack. You get the money back by doubling and getting paid double for pontoon and 5 card tricks. For example, doubling with 16 and hitting on 17 (when you have 4 cards) seem unnatural because you will bust the majority of the time. However, it is +EV because you will be paid double when you hit.

Definitely stick to strategy card. You'll get used to it faster than you think, and it will pay in the end.

Smelly · #8 06-26-2006, 12:38 PM

I don't understand the doubling part though. If my hand is A,4,2,3 then which box on the chart do I look at? The left side of the chart only has two cards at the soft bottom so I don't know how to select which two cards it is.

Dave Coulier · #9 06-26-2006, 12:41 PM

4/2/3 adds up to 9, so essentially you have A/9, and the strat card tells you to double down on A/9 when u have 4 cards.

Photoc · #10 06-27-2006, 06:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
4/2/3 adds up to 9, so essentially you have A/9, and the strat card tells you to double down on A/9 when u have 4 cards.

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No, 9 or A/9 (20) is not the same hand. Even if A = 1, then you'd have 10 and 9, not 9 and 9. They are not "essentially" the same. You can't lose with Axxx where you total 10 or 20 on four cards by doubling. Automatic 5-Card trick.