Set facing action on the turn

Leobzook · #1 06-23-2006, 10:03 PM

UTG+2 = 22/13/2.3
Button = 35/15/2.5

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+2 raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)</font>
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, CO folds, Button 3-bets

Whats the action here? call cap or fold?

Magellan · #2 06-23-2006, 11:01 PM

Hmmm, this is a hard decision IMO. Have you ever seen UTG+2 slowplay a flopped set or top 2P? Button is a bit of an enigma, KTs is the only "logical" hand I could put him on that warrants 3-betting the turn. How many hands do you have on these players? I don't think this is an auto-fold, but I would need more info to decide. And yes, it's cap or fold.

RAHZero · #3 06-23-2006, 11:03 PM

Grunch:

Ugh, why would you donk a set on that board? That's a beautiful board for you, why not try to extract more? As played, cap the turn. You're behind only KT, AA, QQ and JJ. Chances are your opponents have something like AQ, AJ or QJ, not a set or straight. Your flop donk probably looked like a marginal hand to UTG+2, so I'd guess he has AQ or AJ. Whatever you do, definitely don't fold.

Magellan · #4 06-24-2006, 01:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

Ugh, why would you donk a set on that board? That's a beautiful board for you, why not try to extract more? As played, cap the turn. You're behind only KT, AA, QQ and JJ. Chances are your opponents have something like AQ, AJ or QJ, not a set or straight. Your flop donk probably looked like a marginal hand to UTG+2, so I'd guess he has AQ or AJ. Whatever you do, definitely don't fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact is that a certain % of the time we're facing AA or QQ here (UTG+2 could easily hold one of these), so this is not an auto-cap any more than it's not an auto-fold. And occasionally we're gonna see KT. The idea is to use what info we have on our opponents to try to avoid spewing the times that we're drawing to 1 out, and to extract the most value the times our hand is good. For me, I don't have enough info to decide my play here, and I'm not even sure what line I take against 2 unknowns. To say we're never folding here is wrong IMO.

TomTom · #5 06-24-2006, 01:08 AM

I'll slowplay a set of aces like that everytime to give the 2nd best hand a chance to catch something.

That said, cap it. You'll see AQ more often then you see AA to make it pay. If button played an unlikely KT for the str8 you still have re-draws for the boat.

The Vibesman · #6 06-24-2006, 01:08 AM

The flop donk is terrible. You've got to figure he's going to raise here w/ any good ace and knock out the field. You've got a set, there are no flush or open ended str8 draws on the board. If anyone has AA or QQ you're going to lose a lot of chips. Button would have reraised. UTG might, and you'll have to eat if if he does. Point is you want to extract as much money as possible. So check the flop and raise or call dependent on the action. Probably raise. I might call if everyone folded to UTG+2's bet, or if we only got one caller, or if UTG+2 checks and the bet comes from late position, or if it was bet by UTG+2 and raised in mid position. I want everybody in, and I'm only calling to raise the turn.

As played, I don't know if button is loose enough to call KT preflop there. UTG+2 likes his hand enough to just call the flop and wait for the turn. Cap it. You'll probably get two calls.

As for the river, I wouldn't fold. Even if the heart draw hit or the board paired up top, the only read we have is aggressive, so I'd have to ride it out, even if the action got heavy. I'd lead, no matter the card.

kiemo · #7 06-24-2006, 01:29 AM

That flop was crying for a check/raise.

Call turn. Hope to see showdown for only 1 more on river. If you gotta pay 2 on the river, you can safely fold.

Leobzook · #8 06-24-2006, 02:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop donk is terrible. You've got to figure he's going to raise here w/ any good ace and knock out the field.

[/ QUOTE ]

The game was fishy, 3 players cold called preflop - these were not the type of players who were going to get knocked out by a flop raise if they had a piece of flop.
I expected UTG to raise, the majority to call and then I could 3 bet.

Fantam · #9 06-24-2006, 10:02 AM

I prefer a flop check/raise (with a view to trapping the field) to a bet/3-bet.

I also prefer a turn call to a cap, particularly as you think that some of your opponents are fishy.

That makes button having a straight with KT more likely, but you have outs for a boat on the river.

If you dont improve on the river, I would also be inclined to call 1, but not 2 bets.

Ricks · #10 06-24-2006, 10:53 AM

I like the flop bet, hoping that UG+2 raises. This hand fits the definition of a "large pot", it is raised preflop and is four handed or more (SSHE, pg. 146). "Seize opportunities to knock out players, whether you have a made hand or a draw." (SSHE, pg. 148).

There are two big cards on the board which gives any KJ, KT, JT correct odds to draw on the flop. Facing two bets they still have close to the correct odds, so if they do call we are 3-betting anyway. Going for the c/r we have no opportunity to knock anyone out.