How to handle VERY loose live games?

[Mutant K12]

Recently at the local O8 game (4/8 - half kill) there are a few players who just seem to love raising, with absolutely anything... 29TK, 47TQ, etc. They miss the flop completely and keep on betting thru the river. The last few times I have loosened up and started calling with some hands I would normally muck with heavy action like 3 big cards and a dangler (KQT2,etc) and low hands like A57T. Pretty much I hit the flop well for those hands or fold, and also pay attention to what the regular tight crowd does with those flops and if the super-rocks start raising its time to go away most times unless I hit the flop pretty hard. This has worked out pretty well so far against these guys but I wonder about the long term...

So I guess the question is... what do you do in these situations? Keep playing tight or loosen up?

Thanks

[benwood]

These games ,as you describe them,are not only very loose but also very aggressive.In a game with a lot of pre-flop raising you can't loosen up as much as you can in a loose passive game because your implied odds are not as good when you come into a raised pot.So,I personally would loosen up some,but as much as you have indicated.

Good luck.Ben

[Mutant K12]

First - Thanks for the input.

Second - So how loose do you think I should go with my starting hands then? My normal collection of starting hands are
- Ace based hands like A234,A23x,AA2x,A34x,etc
- 4 big card hands like KQJT,AKQJ,etc
- The occasional 2345,2346,etc from late position with little action
- Whatever I have in the BB when nobody raises [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

And does it matter if it is always the same 2 guys playing hyper aggressive and the rest of the table (the regulars) are still playing their usual tight passive game?

[FatBallz]

In a situation like this, you must strive to be even looser than your opponents. If they want to raise junk like 247J preflop, you have to be willing to reraise that ass with even junkier hands, like 3689, or 222J (after all, you hold four of his outs). If he reraises you PF w/ 222J, you muck your cards, than announce "I PLAY THE BOARD MOTHER [censored]" and RE-RERAISE THAT ASS.

It's like Jim Malone said: "They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue."

[benwood]

When other people are playing like this,you have to pay close attention to how other players are re-acting to them & to your position.If a lot of people are not respecting their raises & are coming in anyway,this gives you the leeway to come in with the type of fairly marginal hands that like multi-way pots.(Ex.A suited,3,6,J).

When you have the type of hand that plays better short-handed or preferably heads up,(Ex.A,Q,Q,4),you are in a raise or fold situation.I would raise him in this type of situation any time it seems half way reasonable.You want to calm him down if possible,because you would prefer a game where the others don't raise much before the flop.

[Ironman]

Ok, this might just be me...but I would add in ANY connected four cards to see a flop (as long as you have position during that hand). So, if the raisers enter the pot on your right, you look down and see 6,7,8,9....I would call this bet and see a flop.

Against this kind of opponent, I would play some pretty raggedy cards to the river (two pair) or if its heads up play any two low cards below a five to a made low. (I would only play this way heads up against the maniac raiser.)

Dave

[grandgnu]

Why not continue to play tight and strong starting hands? It appears that they're willing to build the pots and do all the betting for you. Why spew chips with 3rd best hands, especially with lots of players involved in the pot?

Be patient, take the big scores from your hands that play well in multi-way pots.

I know when I started in low limit online Omaha 8, trying to raise to reduce the field was pointless with my A/A/x/x hands. So I proceeded with caution. If your raises can get you heads-up, go for it, otherwise, let them pay you off when you have strong hands.

[benwood]

Mutant12:The hands that you describe as your normal starting hands are absolutely correct,imho.Expanding your original Question1)Should you loosen your standards in certain types of games?,&(2)If so,how much?The answers are(1)Yes,&(2)Not very much.

To be more specific,lets talk about 2 game types(1)loose passive--lot of players in & not much raising,&(2)loose aggressive--lot of players & lots of raising.When the players are loose passive,you can loosen your standards more that in any other type of game.If you maintain your usual rigid standards,you will be a winner,but not as big of a winner as when you play a few more hands.This is because in a tight game if you play marginal hands,you will be starting with weaker hands than the rest of the table,& when you do have a winner they will not give you any action & pay you off.But this same marginal hand will be a winner in a looser game because it will be better than the average hand & get paid off when it hits.

When these loose players are raising a lot,you don't want to let them run you out of the hand when your hands is one of the better hands in contention,but still,you can't be as loose as in the passive game because it's too expensive to pay multiple bets & then throw your hand away when you miss the flop,so you have to pick your spots a little more carefully than in the loose passive game.

As I said earlier,your normal hand selection is very good,but I believe you are loosening up too much in the loose aggressive games that you are playing in.

Good luck.Ben.

[grandgnu]

Just because your opponents are aggressive and loose doesn't mean they can't have a hand. If you loosen up your standards, you run the risk of overplaying 3rd and 4th best hands (idiot end of the straight, Queen or Jack-high flush, under-full houses, weak lows, etc)

I prefer the loose-passive tables of course, since I can get the calling stations calling bets with 2nd-5th best holdings and paying off my nuts. And the tight players you can push out if the flop is junky, which can add up nicely when you take down a pot three-handed with nothing.

I just recommend proceeding with caution. Don't turn into a calling station just because your opponents are loose, you might donk off a lot of your profit this way. Best of luck to ya!

[benwood]

Grandnu:I suspect that at the table you & I would be playing very simlar hands even in a loose game,& maybe we're just splitting hairs.

With that said,I still think that you can't start off exactly the same way in a tight game & in a loose game.Poker is a geme of adjusting to changing to changing conditions.If you remain inflexible with your opening hand requirements,you probably still will win,but not as much as you should.

It's true that whether the players are tight or loose,the same number of good hands will be dealt,& your hand must be competitive with these good hands.Still, when there are a lot of players coming in with hands that should not be played & chasing to the river with these hands,better implied odds are produced,& marginal hands that would not be playable in a tight game become playable.

It's all a matter of picking your spots carefully,not loosening up too much,& using good judgement.

I like to drop my standards a little when only the loose players are in the hand.I feel that I want to play just a small amount tighter than the guys that I'm hoping to win the money from.