Time for a semi-bluff?

[Ampelmann]

Only a few hands at the table, no real reads, but the table as a whole seems a bit rockish. This was the first hand with 5 players to the flop.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero ?

Time for a raise here or should I just call? I tend to raise, but I'm not sure.

Good things a raise could accomplish: It might give me the pot at once or with a turn-bet or may give me a free card should I want one.

Bad things: Leaves me HU with the bettor who likely has a better hand and might me pay.

[freedom18]

definately raise here... ur in position u have about 14 outs... it could buy u the free card which will give you chance to hit on the river plus it forces 3 people to call 2 cold which in turn improves ur chances

[fabadam]

(grunch)

I'm calling, I don't want to chase all the other players out here: we're only winning when our nut flush draw comes in, and when that happens, I'd rather have it 4-way than HU.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Call. You have a boatload of outs but terrible relative position to take advantage of an equity edge. A raise leaves this heads up more often than not.

You'll make a lot more in the long run keeping other people in than pushing them out right now.

[VTDuffman]

[ QUOTE ]
Only a few hands at the table, no real reads, but the table as a whole seems a bit rockish. This was the first hand with 5 players to the flop.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero ?

Time for a raise here or should I just call? I tend to raise, but I'm not sure.

Good things a raise could accomplish: It might give me the pot at once or with a turn-bet or may give me a free card should I want one.

Bad things: Leaves me HU with the bettor who likely has a better hand and might me pay.

[/ QUOTE ]

(grunch)
I'm calling b/c I don't want to drive people out of this pot. We're likely only good when that [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls. While raising here would still give us the odds to chase the flush if the turn isn't a heart, I think just calling gives us better odds.

God, I suck at this: What I'm trying to say is that while I think raising will win us money, I think calling will win us more money.

[Quester]

[ QUOTE ]
Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

(just grunching through)

My gut told me to call this and get in a raise on the turn if a heart comes. But after thinking about it, I raise. I don't expect the blinds to go to the turn because the pot is small and the bet is coming from EP. The raise on the flop may buy us a free card if the turn isn't a heart.

[johnnytt]

I just call here. With 14 outs to two pair, trips, or the nut flush I dont mind the others players sticking around building the pot for me.

[tyler_cracker]

One of the best reasons to raise here is to clean up some outs. In this case, the only way you would clean up outs is if someone has AJ or J4 or 43 AND folds it to your raise AND an A/4 comes later AND you miss your flush. Quite a parlay.

Or, with looser opponents, a raise is more attractive.

Calling is way better here.

[Ignignokt]

Allow me to say this in the form of a dramatic scene:

(Scene: Ampelmann's computer room. Ignignokt is in the corner reading an issue of Q and drinking Ampelmann's bourbon. Ampelmann is playing some poker on UB.)

Ampelmann: Hmmm...I have the nut flush draw in a four-handed pot and it was checked to a bettor on my immediate right. I think I'll raise...

Ignignokt: (Throws magazine to the side, and bourbon flies everywhere as he leaps in slow motion towards the computer) NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

(Ignignokt is too late, as Ampelmann clicks Raise, the blinds fold and UTG+1 calls. The turn is the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], after which UTG+1 checks, Ampelmann bets and UTG+1 folds.)

Ampelmann: D'oh.

(Ignignokt slaps his forehead, then Ampelmann's.)

...and scene.

[Triggerle]

with the read on the table as rockish I would just call (and maybe look for a better table in the mean time). Usually at these limits I would raise because the people to the left of me will stay in anyway.