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#1
06-19-2006, 06:54 AM
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fairest way to handle situation?
i won't reveal what the floor decision was until later in order not to skew results. i just want to see how you would rule. here's the situation:
2/5nl, button raises to 25, 4 calls. flop is J55hh. check, mp bets 30, CO calls, button makes it 330, SB shoves for 675, CO calls all in for 300, and button starts thinking. CO then randomly flips over his J5 for the flopped boat, so button mucks his AQhh. SB had 45s and is livid because the flush draw will obviously not call an all in for 375 more getting even money, however he would have called getting 5 to 1 or so not knowing that someone was already full. what's the ruling here on CO's hand, the situation, etc? 
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#2
06-19-2006, 07:47 AM
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Re: fairest way to handle situation?
[ QUOTE ]
i won't reveal what the floor decision was until later in order not to skew results. i just want to see how you would rule. here's the situation: 2/5nl, button raises to 25, 4 calls. flop is J55hh. check, mp bets 30, CO calls, button makes it 330, SB shoves for 675, CO calls all in for 300, and button starts thinking. CO then randomly flips over his J5 for the flopped boat, so button mucks his AQhh. SB had 45s and is livid because the flush draw will obviously not call an all in for 375 more getting even money, however he would have called getting 5 to 1 or so not knowing that someone was already full. what's the ruling here on CO's hand, the situation, etc? [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand - why does SB care? He's already in and he's already drawing dead, what difference does it make to him unless he somehow thinks CO and Button are colluding with this play? Seems to me the only one losing out here was the CO, no?
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#3
06-19-2006, 07:55 AM
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Re: fairest way to handle situation?
um, no. SB was going to get the overcall with button having just a flush draw and make substantial equity on the 375 more. button would only make the overcall if he thought he had a shot at the whole pot, not just the 375 on top.
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#5
06-19-2006, 08:02 AM
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Re: fairest way to handle situation?
[ QUOTE ]
um, no. SB was going to get the overcall with button having just a flush draw and make substantial equity on the 375 more. button would only make the overcall if he thought he had a shot at the whole pot, not just the 375 on top. [/ QUOTE ] Reading hands is obviously -EV at the end of a long night shift - thanks for the clarification... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
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#6
06-19-2006, 08:14 AM
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Re: fairest way to handle situation?
Crappy situation - I have seen this before and most of the time the only ruling is that button has option to call or fold which in this case will be a clear fold - Cant really force the button to call here, CO player should get a warning for this as well for being an idiot
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#7
06-19-2006, 08:57 AM
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Re: fairest way to handle situation?
[ QUOTE ]
Crappy situation - I have seen this before and most of the time the only ruling is that button has option to call or fold which in this case will be a clear fold - Cant really force the button to call here, CO player should get a warning for this as well for being an idiot [/ QUOTE ] I agree with TheStation here. It is certainly a crappy situation and the above is the only way I have ever seen it handled. However, I believe the correct ruling should be: CO hand is dead. He exposed his hand during play that changed the play of other players. It was his mistake that cost another money or Sklansky bucks. His bad. I have had almost this exact situation happen to me when I was in the sb's position, so perhaps I am biased. But, I see no reason why the sb should lose money(or even the chance at a +ev spot) because of anothers careless mistake. If one of two people should suffer because of this then it should be co, imo. Fwiw, Sb's equity was 71% over AQhh in possible $345 side pot. If button calls, then co cost sb $245 in Sklanksy bucks. --- 903 games 0.005 secs 180,600 games/sec Board: Jh 5h 5d Dead: 5s Js equity (%) win (%) tie (%) Hand 1: 71.2625 % 71.21% 00.06% { 5c4c } Hand 2: 28.7375 % 28.68% 00.06% { AhQh } --- 345 * .7162 = 245.84 Also, before the exposed cards, buttons decision was to continue rights to a 1120 main pot and 345 side pot. 345 into 1465= 1:4.2 odds.
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#8
06-19-2006, 01:01 PM
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Re: fairest way to handle situation?
[ QUOTE ]
CO hand is dead. He exposed his hand during play that changed the play of other players. It was his mistake that cost another money or Sklansky bucks. His bad. [/ QUOTE ] Horrible decision. Side pot is $30 + $375 = $405. If button calls, it goes up to $375 + $375 = $760. So the most the SB "lost" by the exposure is $355. Since his equity vs the AQ was "only" ~70%, his "theoretical" loss is about $140. And you are going to award the $1000+ main pot to second best hand. Simple. SB has the option to take his last action back, ie his $675.
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#9
06-19-2006, 01:06 PM
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Re: fairest way to handle situation?
I think it's not a "horrible decision" - a tough one but one that would teach players to stop with the nonsense...if every game followed one set of rules (not some for tourney and some for cash) and followed them explicitly then their would be so much less room for complaining at the poker table...
players who pulled the whole "I didn't know that" would pay for the education the same way as everyone has in past and the other players would not suffer....
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