WSOP Main Event

[Lapper]

Hello, everyone in the MTT Community. I have seen posts on this site by some of the big names in poker, including Greg Raymer, the winner of the 2004 WSOP Main Event. I have posted some things myself and have learned a lot from reading other people's posts. I have a question I'd like to hear your opinion about and especially I would like to hear from some of the illuminaries in the poker community, especially DS (David Sklanksy) who I have the utmost respect for and maybe some others who have played in the WSOP main event.

I have won an entry in an online satellite to the main event this year. Last year I also won an entry in an online satellite, played and finished about 700th, 140 spots or so away from the money.

Let me give you a short synopsis of my poker playing background and abilities. I have been playing poker all my life, but really got serious about it a few years ago when the WPT started on the Travel Channel. I picked up and read all of the literature I could and consider myself a student of the game. Unfortunately, all that studying has not really translated into me becoming an excellent player. I consider myself, at best, a mediocre recreational player with still a lot to learn, and I try to learn something new every time I play. I play mostly online, but also in live cash games and tournaments at local casinos in Southern California. Last year's experience playing in the main event was certainly the highlight of my poker career and I daresay the highlight of my life.

My question is this, I have no illusions about winning the main event, I know that is probably an impossibility for a person like myself. In fact, the pros are probably reading this with their mouths watering, saying "here is some more dead money in the tournament for us to win". Having said that, I wonder if some of those pros would honestly tell me what they would suggest as a strategy for a person like myself to play with if my goal is just to make the money. Making the money at the WSOP main event would mean everything to me, and I don't believe it is an unrealistic goal. I also realize, having played and studied the game, that no single strategy is a good one, that you must adjust any strategy to the specific playing conditions that you are in, the people at the table, the chip stacks, the blinds, etc. But again, I'm not really looking for any foolproof method, I'm just looking for a little insight into what a pro would do if his only goal was to make the money, not to win the tournament outright.

Thank you in advance for your insights and I hope to see you all at the main event this year.

[poopstar212]

why is your goal to make the money and not win?

[mikeymer]

if you play to make the money, you won't make the money...

[sunrise]

[ QUOTE ]
.... Unfortunately, all that studying has not really translated into me becoming an excellent player. I consider myself, at best, a mediocre recreational player with still a lot to learn, ......

My question is this, I have no illusions about winning the main event, I know that is probably an impossibility for a person like myself. In fact, the pros are probably reading this with their mouths watering, saying "here is some more dead money in the tournament for us to win".

[/ QUOTE ]

Frankly, I think this is your problem right here....you've already given up before the event has even started. I think with anything in life you need to have confidence. Okay, realistically you are not the best player in the tournament, but so what? There was ONE pro at last year's final table, right? Why on earth is there no reason why you can't be one of those non-pro's who make it deep?

Modesty is all good, and always trying to be a better player and learn more is great too, but I think there's a time and a place for it, and that time and place is when you are studying, or posting, not when you are deep in a tournament.
Give yourself some credit for being good enough to not only get into the money but to reach the final table to boot!

Otherwise I think this will affect your mindset and translate into weakness. Some of the more aggressive player's may pick up on this weakness and pick up pots from you because they realize you are focused more on trying to survive, rather than win.

[Moose747]

I think the OP asks a valid question, if not one particularly common in these forums. His assumption that his likelihood of winning is for all purposes zero, but that his likelihood of making the money is non-zero is pretty reasonable. I know we'd all recommend that he take the time to learn the intricacies of the game, such that he becomes a winning poker player, but it sounds like this isn't his intention, and that he probably isn't even all that interested in the $$$.

I would recommoned that OP read some of the posts about playing big multi-entry satellites, and treat the WSOP ME as such a tournament. Early on the strategy is similar to any other tournament--make +EV decisions and push edges. Around the bubble, tighten up, as one would in a satellite. Once you think you can fold into the money, do so.

I don't see this advice being particularly useful to anyone but the OP, since most 2+2ers seem to be interested in profit more than in esteem.

[AlwaysAir]

[ QUOTE ]
if you play to make the money, you won't make the money...

[/ QUOTE ]

[Lapper]

Many of the answers so far have been along the lines of that I have given up already and that trying to make the money is in itself a self defeating strategy. Your post was the only one that suggested something that I already have used to my advantage in playing satellites, in fact I used it to win the satellite that got me into the WSOP.

Last year, when I almost made the money, I did exactly as you suggested, played only +EV situations on the first day of the tournament, loosened up a bit on the second day, but contrary to your suggestion, I did not try to limp into the money. In fact, I calculated that I would need about 100,000 chips to make it to the money and when I got busted out, I had about 60,000. I'm regretting what I did, because I think I could have limped into the money had I not made the decision that I did.

Sean (The Sheik) Sheikhahan was at my table and I picked up AK in the small blind when he was in the cutoff seat. The blinds were 1 and 2 thousand and the ante was 100 so my M was about 15 at that point. He was chip leader at the table with more than double what I had. The table folded to him and he made a standard 3 times the BB raise that looked to me like a steal, so I came over the top and doubled his raise, at which point he went all-in. He had me covered, so I probably should have folded and just limped into the money with the 48000 or so that I had left, but I had him figured as a very aggressive player who could have been making that play with just about any two cards. I really figured him on a pair such as 10-10 or JJ and I thought that at worst I would be racing off and if I got lucky and won the race, doubling to 120000 would assure me of making the money. So, I called and he showed pocket As and knocked me out. Was that such a terrible play? I don't know, all I know is I didn't make the money and it hurt. I have spent the last year studying all I can and playing more tournaments and I now think I am a better player than I was last year, but I'm still not sure what I would do if presented with the same situation again.

Also, to address your issue of whether I care about the money, of course I do. Also, to say that I have not spent the time to make myself a better player is not really correct either. I do spend a lot of time trying to better myself as a poker player, but I guess it is just part of my nature to be aware of my own limitations. I have made the final table in probably 6 or 7 small local tournaments, where the prize pool is usually chopped, so I can't say where I would have ended up. I have confidence, but I also have a keen awareness of the vagaries of this game.

[0evg0]

I'll get back to this when I'm done vomiting.

At the moment it's still coming up.

No more chunks at least, mostly just gagging really.

Just a minute.

[jclin]

If you were really that scared why didn't you fold? Your logic is very flawed. You are not fearing AA or KK for some reason. PP against AK is also a favorite. You want the money that bad? Then fold. I hope I am against you when we are going for ITM. Seriously.

I'm sorry, but if you are playing this way, then these forums have taught you nothing.

Also, I don't understand why you need 100K chips to get ITM. Don't you only need one?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Many of the answers so far have been along the lines of that I have given up already and that trying to make the money is in itself a self defeating strategy. Your post was the only one that suggested something that I already have used to my advantage in playing satellites, in fact I used it to win the satellite that got me into the WSOP.

Last year, when I almost made the money, I did exactly as you suggested, played only +EV situations on the first day of the tournament, loosened up a bit on the second day, but contrary to your suggestion, I did not try to limp into the money. In fact, I calculated that I would need about 100,000 chips to make it to the money and when I got busted out, I had about 60,000. I'm regretting what I did, because I think I could have limped into the money had I not made the decision that I did.

Sean (The Sheik) Sheikhahan was at my table and I picked up AK in the small blind when he was in the cutoff seat. The blinds were 1 and 2 thousand and the ante was 100 so my M was about 15 at that point. He was chip leader at the table with more than double what I had. The table folded to him and he made a standard 3 times the BB raise that looked to me like a steal, so I came over the top and doubled his raise, at which point he went all-in. He had me covered, so I probably should have folded and just limped into the money with the 48000 or so that I had left, but I had him figured as a very aggressive player who could have been making that play with just about any two cards. I really figured him on a pair such as 10-10 or JJ and I thought that at worst I would be racing off and if I got lucky and won the race, doubling to 120000 would assure me of making the money. So, I called and he showed pocket As and knocked me out. Was that such a terrible play? I don't know, all I know is I didn't make the money and it hurt. I have spent the last year studying all I can and playing more tournaments and I now think I am a better player than I was last year, but I'm still not sure what I would do if presented with the same situation again.

Also, to address your issue of whether I care about the money, of course I do. Also, to say that I have not spent the time to make myself a better player is not really correct either. I do spend a lot of time trying to better myself as a poker player, but I guess it is just part of my nature to be aware of my own limitations. I have made the final table in probably 6 or 7 small local tournaments, where the prize pool is usually chopped, so I can't say where I would have ended up. I have confidence, but I also have a keen awareness of the vagaries of this game.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you had been folding in situations like this, you would never have gotten to 60K chips in the first place.