Roger Avery

thatpfunk · #1 06-12-2006, 04:40 PM

As he was mentioned a bit in the QT threads. I'd just like to hear others random thoughts.

I have never seen Killing Zoe. I own Rules of Attraction and was watching it the other day while falling asleep and was struck by how absolutely horrible some of the scenes are while some of the others are some of my favorites.

He is obviously a creative guy, will he ever be able to put it all together?

Also, some of his cooler scenes are gimmicky, yet I still enjoy them. The opening 3 character introduction/ rewind scene is sweet and quite meticulous. A great way to start a movie about perspective. The European scene is excellent. So is the split screen that eventually becomes one when Sean and Lauren meet for the first time and the Dick dinner scene.

diebitter · #2 06-12-2006, 04:42 PM

He also wrote Silent Hill, which clearly indicates to me he has lost it creatively.

Rules of Attraction - seemed deliberately shock-tactic, and none of the characters were nice enough to actually care much about. The European thing was good though.

thatpfunk · #3 06-12-2006, 04:57 PM

db,
that is a product of the book that it was adapted from. that is the general complaint about ellis's novels. for some reason, not caring about the characters doesn't bother me if it is done well.

also, aside from the suicide scene (which is done excellently as well), i didn't find much shocking. it is when he tries to be "extreme" (i guess? cant find a better word), that he fails miserably. for instance the "dress to get screwed party" that had naked chicks walking around, no big deal. why make such a stupid, egregious error? it is obviously unrealistic and completely undermines anything the film is saying.

some aspects, however, were kind of scary similar my college experience.

mason55 · #4 06-12-2006, 05:07 PM

from what i've read and discussions i've had with people who love ellis, none of his characters are lovable. american psycho, rules of attraction, less than zero, you never really like anyone. Avary and Ellis are such good friends that I can't see Avary changing that much about the characters. if you want to fault that, fault Ellis. I think, however, that reading the books helps you like the characters a lot more.

diebitter · #5 06-12-2006, 05:18 PM

-- pfunk, mason55

associating problems the movie had with the book author does not improve the movie one iota. It's a movie, not a book with moving pictures and sound. If Avery can't bring out whatever he needs to to elicit the book's tone/mood/characters, he is to blame, not Ellis.

I forgotten it was an Ellis book, actually. I loathed American Psycho (the book), but liked the movie a lot, FWIW.

thatpfunk · #6 06-12-2006, 05:21 PM

db,
the characters are not supposed to be liked. they are vapid, insecure, apathetic, and nihilistic. these are not problems either, just the way it is supposed to be.

i thought avery did a good job with paul, okay with lauren, and meh w/ sean.

diebitter · #7 06-12-2006, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
db,
the characters are not supposed to be liked. they are vapid, insecure, apathetic, and nihilistic. these are not problems either, just the way it is supposed to be.

i thought avery did a good job with paul, okay with lauren, and meh w/ sean.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want characters to be this but still engage an audience, there are a variety of tricks/techniques to enable this. This is what film-making is all about.

Watching a bunch of despicable characters for 2 hours and not making them engage at any sort of level with the audience is just bad moviemaking.

EDIT: A really good film-maker, like Lynch, could pull it off though.

raisins · #8 06-12-2006, 05:40 PM

Many people hate it but I love Killing Zoe. It's one of the best heist movies ever. It has great characters, a good story and most importantly is well paced, none of the scenes lag. I understand why those who look for a hero to identify with wouldn't be into it as none of the characters are all that sympathetic, except for the main character, and him only marginally so. While there is a happy redemptive ending much of the movie is filled with harsh scenes, harsh both in content and theme.

I consider it a better movie than any of Tarantino's.

raisins

FredBoots · #9 06-15-2006, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He also wrote Silent Hill, which clearly indicates to me he has lost it creatively.

[/ QUOTE ]

I loved both Silent Hill (and Rules of Attraction). I figure I’m in a minority with the former. Having played all the Hill games (multiple times), it was amazing that he made some sense out of the first one. Things I loved about Silent Hill:
- The idea that the church people's fanatically belief simultaneously condemned them and then saved them (for a while).
- The whole movie, if viewed from the dad's point of view, could possibly be about a women kidnapping and killing their child. Why did he cancel her credit cards? Why all the allusions about how the cop had saved another kid who'd been kidnapped.
- They finally explain the siren.
- The dialogue was slow and stilted. I’m probably being too forgiving, but if you’ve played the game, you’ll notice the same thing. It is probably because they translated the game from Japanese. They take longer to say the same thing so the game has long gaps between characters’ talking.

BarronVangorToth · #10 06-16-2006, 10:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I forgotten it was an Ellis book, actually. I loathed American Psycho (the book), but liked the movie a lot, FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might just like Christian Bale as he nailed the part. I'm surprised not liking the book as BEE is amazing -- if you want to give him another go, since you've read American Psycho, you might want to check out his latest (Lunar Park).