Is there a perfect NLHE Bot? Could there be?

vypremik · #1 01-16-2006, 08:29 PM

I was reading over a post that answered a question about the toughest game and came across some discussion about a perfect poker Bot.

It seemed worth talking about so I posted my opinion here.

I love to hear people talk about the perfect Bot and how it could beat any Hold-Em player by playing defensively.

For those of you who are on the border - don't believe it.

First of all Hold-em is not only a game of skill, but also a game of luck. If what these poeple are claiming is true, that there is a perfect bot that will always win, and that players like Phil Ivey nearly mimic the bot, then Phil should ALMOST NEVER lose!

I give Phil a lot of credit, he is absolutely one of the top five players in the world at what he does (in my opinion), but it NOT beacuase of his perfect defensive play (although he is good at defense), it is because of his varied aggressive attack.

The perfect defensive bot would probably lose to the majority of the players on this forum, amateurs included. If the bot holds KQ and there is an ace on the board, the bot will ALWAYS fold to a big bet. Why? Because it is the right thing to do!

Give me that player anytime!

This talk about a bot reminds of of all of those sci-fi movies of the seventies that showed intelligent computers taking over the world. Computers and bots alike only do what they are told. That is all they can do. That is all they will ever do.

BRING ON THE BOTS!

Arnfinn Madsen · #2 01-16-2006, 08:35 PM

The day computers get better at understanding human psychology than humans are, a bot better than any humans will be made. This will happen some time, but I think it is relatively long into the future. A perfect bot will never be made as no computer will ever understand the total complexity of human psychology (ok, never is an exaggeration, maybe it will be made in 3,000 years time [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]).

gdsdiscgolfer · #3 01-16-2006, 09:18 PM

The bot is not better than any human in that it does not capitalize on mistake to win the maximum. It will merely never lose a HU Freezeout.

TexArcher · #4 01-16-2006, 09:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The bot is not better than any human in that it does not capitalize on mistake to win the maximum. It will merely never lose a HU Freezeout.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see any sense in this?

HotPants · #5 01-16-2006, 11:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The bot is not better than any human in that it does not capitalize on mistake to win the maximum. It will merely never lose a HU Freezeout.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see any sense in this?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's assuming the only thing a bot is capable of is playing perfect game-theoretic poker which does not always maximize EV.

I see no reason a bot could not adapt to it's opponents just as a human can

restrikt · #6 01-16-2006, 11:14 PM

If the bot has the ability to adapt you an individual's playing styles, then it could absolutely destroy amateurs.

TexArcher · #7 01-16-2006, 11:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The bot is not better than any human in that it does not capitalize on mistake to win the maximum. It will merely never lose a HU Freezeout.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't see any sense in this?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's assuming the only thing a bot is capable of is playing perfect game-theoretic poker which does not always maximize EV.

I see no reason a bot could not adapt to it's opponents just as a human can

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed that progammers could program a bot to adapt to what it "learns" during a game, but the part I have an issue with is "It will merely never lose a HU Freezeout". Not possible...

ColdCaller · #8 01-17-2006, 12:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The bot is not better than any human in that it does not capitalize on mistake to win the maximum. It will merely never lose a HU Freezeout.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, so if you shove every hand regardless of what you have, you're going to lose 100% of the time against the bot?

OrangeKing · #9 01-17-2006, 12:57 PM

What is possible (theoretically) is to make a bot that plays the game perfect from a game theory perspective, and would be unbeatable in the long run . But that's a lot different than suggesting it would win every heads up NL freezeout. And I'm not sure how possible building this theoretically perfect bot is.

p-i · #10 01-17-2006, 03:33 PM

I think that yes, it can and will be done. I don't know about 'perfect' but certainly very, very good.

If a bot could play theoretically perfectly while modelling players behaviour then it would be very strong. Of course, while it was building a model of a players behaviour it would be somewhat exploitable (same as having no reads/stats for a human player).

I think it's a very complex task to program such a thing, though.