Tight Passive wakes up on river. 5/10

dano · #1 06-09-2006, 09:43 PM

The CO here was a 28/7/.7 over around 150 hands.

Thoughts?

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9SB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (10.5BB, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, CO raises, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, SB folds, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 24.5BB

James. · #2 06-09-2006, 09:56 PM

wow, guess he had the 8 or a PP. i've noticed on boards like this even passive players can go crazy with almost any PP or TP b/c they boated. nice hand IMO. also standard IMO.

Percussion · #3 06-09-2006, 09:59 PM

This is fine... I think AQ raises the river here--you cant just put villian on an 8... he could (though quite unlikley KK)

I dont think 3popping this is bad although you ran into quads

marrek · #4 06-09-2006, 10:33 PM

I think flat calling the raise is right. He's only 0.7 on the aggression scale and is raising a scary river.

the options are 3-bet which he only calls with a queen, 3-bet - he folds, 3-bet - he caps and you're beat but have to call.

you only gain IF he's raising with a queen AND will call you down. (Possibly with KK). This is not in line with loose passive play, which his stats suggest. Also, he's raising on a scary board into 2 opponents.

If all he had was a Queen, he should be pushing on the flop and turn to push out your AK, (or any ace for that matter)Since this is a passive player, i think 3-bettting has very little value.

mark

Haupt_234 · #5 06-10-2006, 12:43 AM

Looks standard to me. Ni han.

Haupt_234

Bill C · #6 06-10-2006, 01:01 AM

You'd think if CO had the case 8 you'd have heard from him on the turn, where he could collect from the callers before they figure out they aren't making their hands with their draws. If he had QQ or any B'way pp, I would have expected a player with his stats to raise pf.

Maybe he has a medium or small pp for a (sinking) boat, or maybe he hit a flush with something like K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and is missing or ignoring the possibility that you have a boat.

In any case, I think these probabilities justify your aggressive play on the river. If he shows you an 8, it's a tough beat, but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Just my $.02 worth...

bill c

Haupt_234 · #7 06-10-2006, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You'd think if CO had the case 8 you'd have heard from him on the turn, where he could collect from the callers before they figure out they aren't making their hands with their draws. If he had QQ or any B'way pp, I would have expected a player with his stats to raise pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that a large majority of the time, these players who hit quads and have position will wait until the river to raise because, hey, they have quads!

But I still agree that capping the river is correct here since his action could mean many other holdings.

Haupt_234

SenecaJim · #8 06-10-2006, 04:53 PM

I'm not an expert yet and I tend to get trapped being over aggressive sometimes, but IMHO if you don't 3-bet aces with this board given the turn action (in Limit poker ).... Well, I don't know , but I say nicely played. If he had quads, good hand buddy.

I'm not ignoring his being passive, but I find passive players aren't usually the best players. With any Q he might believe he has the best hand ( and a rare time to feel aggressive cause probably thinking at worse he'll split pot) Also, I find passive or weak players wait til the river alot because have trouble pulling the trigger on the turn. I guess they figure, only one betting round left, more willing to get a little risky ala raising.

dano · #9 06-10-2006, 05:43 PM

I think there is added value to river 3-betting because of SB cold calling CO's raise here because SB will probably call for 1 more if CO calls my 3-bet. With SB padding the pot, my hand needs to be best only a little more than 50% of the time for the river 3-bet to be correct.