JJ from the blind

[bosoxfan]

I wasn't paying much attention so I have no specific reads. It's .50/1 on Paradise so it's like .50/1 on Party only the players are worse.

I think I should have raised somewhere or folded somewhere but called the whole way because I suck. Any comments?

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, <font color="red">MP2 raises </font> , 1 fold, <font color="red"> Button 3-bets </font> , SB calls, Hero calls, <font color="red"> MP2 caps </font> , Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue"> (4 players) </font>
<font color="red"> SB bets </font>, Hero calls, MP2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
<font color="red"> SB bets </font> , Hero calls, MP2 calls, <font color="red"> button raises </font> , SB folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

River: (17 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
Hero checks, <font color="red"> MP2 bets </font> , Button calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20 BB

[Eagle05]

I think we need to raise the flop here to protect our hand and to see what MP2 and the button really have.

As you played it the button raising on the turn's got me worried but I'd probably just end up calling down.

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
I think we need to raise the flop here to protect our hand and to see what MP2 and the button really have.

As you played it the button raising on the turn's got me worried but I'd probably just end up calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you protecting from when you raise the flop? For any of the hands you could come up with, how would you play them in MP2's/button's position if the flop came raised to you?

[Curtrosity]

Cap pre flop.

[Disconnected]

I would raise the turn and go from there. Raising the flop with the 3-bettor and capper behind you doesn't seem like it's going to do much for you.

[BrianFellow]

Raise the flop. SB may be behind with a capping hand such as AK or TT. If he or MP2 comes back with a 3bet, you can reassess the situation and seriously consider a fold.

I think you need to fold after button raises the turn. Button is indicating that he has a Q, and you are drawing close to dead if he does, as a J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the river could complete a flush draw. Even if by some chance that you are ahead on the turn (which I seriously doubt), your hand is very vulnerable to a number of possible draws.

On the river, MP2 told you guys he made his flush or slowplayed a Q. Even if MP2 only had a K, you would still lose. Button's call also makes it highly unlikely that you have the best hand. Even with 19 BB in the pot, I don't like the crying call.

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop. SB may be behind with a capping hand such as AK or TT. If he or MP2 comes back with a 3bet, you can reassess the situation and seriously consider a fold.

I think you need to fold after button raises the turn. Button is indicating that he has a Q, and you are drawing close to dead if he does, as a J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the river could complete a flush draw. Even if by some chance that you are ahead on the turn (which I seriously doubt), your hand is very vulnerable to a number of possible draws.

On the river, MP2 told you guys he made his flush or slowplayed a Q. Even if MP2 only had a K, you would still lose. Button's call also makes it highly unlikely that you have the best hand. Even with 19 BB in the pot, I don't like the crying call.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB didn't cap pre-flop. AK is probably OK to call a raise behind you, and TT you don't mind having around. You're better able to protect on the turn, assuming you don't turn a king, ace, or club.

Your outs vs. someone with a queen on the turn are the same regardless of whether a flush draw is completed. In fact, I'd rather have the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river than the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Make sense?

[BrianFellow]

Wow, I'm an idiot. Thank you. I shouldn't have been multitasking when I posted. Thanks for the corrections.

[TommyChong]

I can't seem to edit this post. I misread it the first time damnit!

Hopefully this time will work. I raise/ call the flop and fold if bet into on the turn.

[deception5]

I think the preflop cold call is fine and you learned a lot about MP2's hand when he capped. If you're going to make a move on the pot here though I think it has to be the turn. Even overs have odds to call a raise on the flop so I think waiting is good. The turn pairing is great and the actions of the players left to act will tell you a lot about their hands when you raise - MP will often fold now if he has AK (or incorrectly call which is fine too) and you'll get some idea of the button's hand.

Given the way the hand went I'd fold when the button raised the turn. They waited until the big street to raise a preflop 3-bettor and capper, this is almost always a big hand - and was not intended to knock anyone out but rather to trap the 3 of you for an extra bet.

If I called the turn, I'd fold the river rather than overcall - MP2 often has AK here (or occasionally a monster KK/KQ/AcQc). Either they are both crazy or you are lucky to have the second best hand.