Random fish aggression and why it is important to take initiative!

jdock99 · #1 06-05-2006, 01:28 PM

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, 1 folds, Hero completes, BB raises, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.00 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, CO raises, Hero folds, BB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Results in white below:
ÜøÜø

River results didnt work, but they checked it down and they split the pot w/ A6o and A3o, so I folded the winner w/ both opponents drawing dead [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

This is a 10-20 hand, but I feel it plays more like a small-stakes hand so I am posting it here. BB is a bluff monkey, but if I show strength he is capable of a laydown if he is weak. His most likely hand is nothing. CO is huge passive fishy 60/0/0.6 over a lot of hands.

Depending on what CO does, my plan was to C/C flop and turn, and lead river. However, CO's raise on the turn convinced me he had the king and I made a "big" laydown. However, as you can see from the results he was just making a move. I am always amazed at the loose/passives and their occasional completely random aggression. Whenever they raise, I always give them credit for something, and they normally seem to have nada. Oh well. Obviously, if I had taken the initiative like I was supposed to and raised pf or CR flop none of this would have happened. I guess this is what can happen if u try to get too cute for ur own good.

milesdyson · #2 06-05-2006, 01:32 PM

wow, raise preflop.

otherwise, results oriented.

SlyGuy · #3 06-05-2006, 01:38 PM

Yeah wtf is with that preflop complete? You are playing 10/20 and don't raise that?

I wouldn't call laying down middle pair when you think you are against trip K's a big laydown. Your hand was mediochre based on your incorrect read.

kapw7 · #4 06-05-2006, 01:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a 10-20 hand, but I feel it plays more like a small-stakes hand so I am posting it here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed that when I first read your post. This play is typical at this limit and it has nothing to do with small stakes. Playing passive is being punished at this limit.

What's with this preflop limp? I limp with 56s but AJs is a monster here.

TheHip41 · #5 06-05-2006, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
River results didnt work, but they checked it down and they split the pot w/ A6o and A3o, so I folded the winner w/ both opponents drawing dead

[/ QUOTE ]

they aren't drawing dead. a river A is a 3 way choppy chop [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

jdock99 · #6 06-05-2006, 02:41 PM

I am comfortable with my postflop decisions based on my "read." I was just commenting that if I had played my hand correctly in the first place I wouldn't have put myself in that spot. And I was also lamenting my fortune in getting played out of a pot by the CO and his once in a blue moon random aggression.

Yes, I normally raise this preflop. But sometimes I just call to mix it up. Remember, I was playing against a bluff-monkey and a calling station and with my position relative to them I thought this would be a good chance to get in some extra bets if I hit and get out cheaply if the board came bad.

And the plan would have worked to perfection if not for the CO's completely random aggression. His postflop is 0.6 and most of that is on the river, so his turn raise was completely unanticipated, especially on such a marginal holding.

Pepsquad · #7 06-05-2006, 02:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am comfortable with my postflop decisions based on my "read." I was just commenting that if I had played my hand correctly in the first place I wouldn't have put myself in that spot. And I was also lamenting my fortune in getting played out of a pot by the CO and his once in a blue moon random aggression.

Yes, I normally raise this preflop. But sometimes I just call to mix it up. Remember, I was playing against a bluff-monkey and a calling station and with my position relative to them I thought this would be a good chance to get in some extra bets if I hit and get out cheaply if the board came bad.

And the plan would have worked to perfection if not for the CO's completely random aggression. His postflop is 0.6 and most of that is on the river, so his turn raise was completely unanticipated, especially on such a marginal holding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems to me as though you're not giving CO his due respect. IMO, he played the hand very well. He probably has the same read of BB as you do. He knows that you would raise this flop with a diamond draw or the K. When the 2nd K comes, he knows it couldn't have possibly helped your hand. So he prices you out of the pot and can take his chances with A-hi against bluffboy. Sometimes you get outplayed.

london1o1 · #8 06-05-2006, 02:55 PM

do you raise preflop here (from SB w/ a limper and a laggy BB) if the AJ isn't suited?

Pepsquad · #9 06-05-2006, 02:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do you raise preflop here (from SB w/ a limper and a laggy BB) if the AJ isn't suited?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I do.

waffle · #10 06-05-2006, 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, if I had taken the initiative like I was supposed to and raised pf or CR flop none of this would have happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

o rly?