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#1
06-05-2006, 12:12 PM
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How often are you in the money?
Hi All,
First, for reference I play very low stakes MTT ($1 - $3) at Party. Second, I currently finish in the money about 40% of the tourneys that I enter. About half of this time, I go out in the first couple of payblocks, and the other half the time is divided about evenly among the other levels. I allow myself one $6 SNG per day to increase my performance at the final table, but thus far I have yet to actually win a tourney. (I have won 2 SNG though) Third, I am steadily increasing my bankroll (which started out at $50), and I am thinking of playing the more expensive $6, but wondering if I am good enough. With that background, I would love to hear how often other players finish in the money at the low limit tourneys. Also, how did they know they were ready to step up? The low tourneys are a definitely great place to practice your game, but it is hard to get excited about spending 3 hours to finish 119th and earning $1.27 in a dollar tourney. 
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#2
06-05-2006, 12:16 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
Your final table percentage and your top 3 percentage are much more important than your ITM rate. If you're playing tournaments to get in the money, you shouldn't be playing them. The only reason you should even know when the bubble bursts is so you can adjust your play since people will be playing VERY tight so they can make the money.
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#3
06-05-2006, 12:29 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
Wow gobbo, that is a very interesting concept. I know the payout is way bigger at final table and top 3% than it is at the top 10% (ITM), but anytime I can earn my entry fee + a little profit I am happy.
My actual top 3% is proabably closer to 1% of the time, and my final table is around 0.2% of the time. I am guessing these numbers are very bad, but I am still profitable. Leo
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#4
06-05-2006, 12:48 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
that tournament reporter site says im in the money 12.5% of the time. ive been running really bad and i think that site doesnt keep track of tourneys when a deal is made mabye so its prolly a little higher than that. but im a losing player too so i dont think this numbers mean anything
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#5
06-05-2006, 12:51 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
[ QUOTE ]
Wow gobbo, that is a very interesting concept. I know the payout is way bigger at final table and top 3% than it is at the top 10% (ITM), but anytime I can earn my entry fee + a little profit I am happy. My actual top 3% is proabably closer to 1% of the time, and my final table is around 0.2% of the time. I am guessing these numbers are very bad, but I am still profitable. Leo [/ QUOTE ] Gobbo is correct, your % of cashing is almost a non-factor. Most of us on 2p2 bubble in a TON of tournaments trying to build huge stacks to go to war with so we can go deep.
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#6
06-05-2006, 12:54 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
sweet im an enthusiast now. i think i kinda liked being a member better tho since now i feel like im forced to be excited about losing now that im an enthusiast but before when i was a member people didnt really know how i felt so i could be unhappy about losing if i wanted. did anyone else feel this way when forced to be enthusiasitic? is this normal? how should i deal with it?
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#7
06-05-2006, 01:23 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
[ QUOTE ]
Wow gobbo, that is a very interesting concept. I know the payout is way bigger at final table and top 3% than it is at the top 10% (ITM), but anytime I can earn my entry fee + a little profit I am happy. My actual top 3% is proabably closer to 1% of the time, and my final table is around 0.2% of the time. I am guessing these numbers are very bad, but I am still profitable. Leo [/ QUOTE ] Think about it this way, assume your playing a $3 MTT, and you sneak in the money 50% of the time, each time you only get the first payout, which lets say is $5, now you play 10 tourneys, so you've payed $30 in entry fees and total prize money is $25, in other words everytime you play a $3 buyin you're losing $.50. Now this is unrealistic in that you wont always finish in the first spot, and I think 50% is a little high ITM, but it does show the concept that playing tournaments to squeak in the money is not only not worth the time, you actually can lose money.
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#8
06-05-2006, 01:30 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
Let me elaborate on what Gobbo said. When I first started playing I read H.O.H. which is a very conservative style of play. My results were at lot like yours. I had a very high in the money percentage but didn't ever get very deep. If you look at the payout structure on Stars where I play, the final table gets about 69% of the prize pool. Therefore the average finisher at the FT makes about 7.6% of the total purse. Let's say the tournament has 1,000 entries with a $1.00 buy-in. By making the final table you will earn on average $76. Therefore as you can see, you only need to make 1 final table every 76 tournaments to break even(not counting rake) even if you don't have any other cashes. This is why it is much more important to have the occasional deep finish than it is to consistently finish in the money, but outside of the final table.
After understanding the importance of making it deep in tourneys, not just in the money I have adjusted my playing style. Being more aggressive, making the occasional play, stealing blinds with junk cards, abusing the bubble etc. This type of play will cause you to bust out early a lot more than a conservative style, but when it works you will build a healthy stack which will enable you to reach more FT's thereby increasing your overall ROI. Hope this helps and good luck. Edit: I wrote this before I read the previous post but it should reiterate the point of the importance of making in deep in tournaments not just I.T.M.
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#9
06-05-2006, 01:44 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
Here is another way to look at it. (I play on stars $4/180 mostly so forgive me)
Play 100 tourneys and make ITM 40%, but no FT 40*8 = $320 - $440 = -$120 losses Play 100 tourneys and make FT 4 times, no other ITM finishes 1-1st 1-3rd 1-5th 1-9th 216 + 85 + 30 + 12 = 343 - 440 = -$103 losses Granted, this is probably not the best example (both are losing players) but the idea is still there. 40 ITM finishes and 4 FT finishes can have about the same ROI. The goal of the 100+ person tourneys should NOT be ITM (that should be reserved for SNG where payouts are more equally divided) but should instead be top 3. (I don't like to even shoot for top 3%, but instead shoot for top 3 spots) If I don't make it in that top 3 spots I didn't have a good tourney and I look back and try to figure out how to get there next time.
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#10
06-05-2006, 02:00 PM
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Re: How often are you in the money?
I'd agree with what others are saying regarding ITM - you can kid yourself your doing well but in reality your not. As for improving your performance, I think HOH will help but so will 2+2. Learn to read the tables, tourney dynamics and mix the concepts contained within both HOH & 2+2 and you'll definetly improve your game. There's some excellent discussions on this site.
Also there's nothing worse for me than playing for a few hours and getting your buy-in, or a little more, back. Work at it - winning a MTT is a buzz! As for the stats, I also think the Tournament Reporter site is not that accurate.
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