MTT Bankroll thoughts

[Nez477]

So I hit uncharted waters this week and hit over 1500 for the first time in my roll. I had cashed out about 2k already this year, but at no point was my roll per se above 1000. My previous agreement with my wife was that I'd keep my roll at 400 and cash out anything above that. So when I won a $20/180 MTT in March, I just cashed all 1k out.

This was, of course, dumb. I was playing over my head and taking too many risks, so the Thursday before memorial day I had $30 in my account, and I was sick and tired of dealing with this in my poker career. I'd consistently play over my head, and go broke. I'd done so time and time again.

So I've turned the $30 into about $1400 in 10 days through two $4/180 wins, a $4/180 2nd place, 3 $12 DS wins and a 1st for $630 in a $20 Stud Hi/Lo MTT.

I need advice from you all in terms of managing this roll. I want to make a small supplemental income for my family. I'd like to play in $4-$20 MTT's, with the occasional satellite into the Sunday million.

My original thought was to put my roll max at $1100 (60 buy-ins at $20) and cash out anything above that. However, after a downswing Sunday I found myself losing $180 and made me rethink this plan.

More or less I'm really kind of in uncharted territory for myself personally. In the past 2 years it seems as if I've been so risky/irresponsible with my roll.

I DON'T want to ever go broke again. I'm tired of it, I've spent too much money, and I wouldn't be ok with myself if I lost $1500 dollars somehow without going down in limits, or whatever I need to do.

So I'm hoping you all can give me advice on a specific plan of action. What my max roll should be placed at, when to drop down, when to go up, what levels to play at, how much to cash out, et cetera.

I want poker to be fun, comfortable and a means to make a little extra money for my family. In two years of playing I realized this weekend that I've never experienced this. It's always been the rush to try and hit big, to try and hit that big payday.

Anyway, some help from my peers would be great. My thought thus far was to have my roll at $1100, play in $5-$20 MTT's and if I hit like $700 drop down from the $20's and just play lower limits. If I make money above $1100, I'd cash it out.

Thoughts? Please be harsh/honest if I'm missing something altogether or whatever.

Thanks in advance y'all.

Brad

[rockin]

Yeah, that's my biggest problme too Nez, playing above my BR in a rush to hit a bigger score.

My goal is to stick to the following BR regimen:

100 buyin for MTT's
50 buyin for SnG's (45 players or less)

Drop at all below the 100 buyin or 50 buyin (even by 1 buyin), move down to the next limit.

Obviously, I am lacking the discipline to do this so far. Now seems like a good as time as any to implement. Good luck.

[hemipwered05]

I disagree with dropping as soon as you drop down below 100/50 depending on what you are playing. I do agree with that completely on you need 100 buyins for MTTs and 50 for sngs. However, I go by two rules for managing my bankroll - the first is I will play a certain level until i drop down to the point where I am at 100 or 50 at the level below the level which I'm playing. Also, never risk more than 5-10% of your bankroll in any given day. If you follow that rule you will never go busto.

[rockin]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with dropping as soon as you drop down below 100/50 depending on what you are playing. I do agree with that completely on you need 100 buyins for MTTs and 50 for sngs. However, I go by two rules for managing my bankroll - the first is I will play a certain level until i drop down to the point where I am at 100 or 50 at the level below the level which I'm playing. Also, never risk more than 5-10% of your bankroll in any given day. If you follow that rule you will never go busto.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it really matters when you drop down, as long as you have a set mark. This way, you avoid the "well just one more" or "just a couple more". Set a mark and STICK TO IT. For me, anything less than 100 buyin will move me down, that then means that I am usually playing with 100 to maybe 150 buyins before I move up to the next level.

Just set a mark for moving down and one for moving up.

I like the don't risk more than x% of your stack on any given day.

[Vraket]

When your bankroll drops to a certain amount, strictly play SNGs until you get back into the 'safe zone'. EG, if you have 440 dollars left in your account, you could either play the 180/20 20 times and HOPE to score, or you could play some sngs up to say 500. Giving you 2 new shots at the 180/20. Playing an MTT and some sngs meanwhile you play it often ends up in a break even situation when you don't make something with the tournament.

I had the same problems as you had. I donked off 2.5k during a 2 week period of time. 2.5k is a lot of money to me. Now I strictly keep my Br at minimum 500 dollars maximum 900(when I go above 900 I cash out everything above 500), I play the 20/180s SNGS, 10+1 MTTS, 20+2 MTTS and 3+R and I finance them by multitabling STTs while I play. If I don't score in the tournament(s) the day often means break even for me. When I had a bigger BR I was to lazy to torture myself through the Sngs.

Hope it will be for some help. Most important for me is the removal of the pressure of having to score soon, because MTTS = big variance to your BR and it's never fun to be 73% of the BR down.

Ofc this depends on how well you beat the STTs. You're not supposed to be playing STTS for 4 hours to afford one shot at 20/180.

[pokerstudAA]

This is an email discussuon I had with Matt Matros about bankroll requirements.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the congrats. Most of the opponents I ran into in that event were playing way too tight, so yes, I had the gas pedal floored for pretty much the last three hours. In other situations, like the Million Guaranteed yesterday, I have to be a lot more selective. It all depends on the table composition.

50-60 buy-ins is actually about right for a bankroll requirement. 70-80 would be safer, but 50-60 is not bad.

An average player, by definition, will cash about 1/10 of the time, and lose the juice in each tournament.

A good player will actually not cash much more often than an average player, if at all. But he will average 1-1.5 buy-ins profit for the event. This is because he’s not playing to cash. He’s playing to maximize his EV.

Best,
Matt

[/ QUOTE ]


I think Matt's requirements are a little low. If you are trying to make a weekly nut it helps to have a nice bankroll cushion for those bad weeks. Dropping 40 buy-ins with only a few 2-3x buy-in cashes can really cripple your roll. For big field Mtt's 500+ I would like to have 150-200 buy-ins. The variance is much higher than SNG's and big cashes can come few and far between.

[Rick Diesel]

Instead of having a certain amount to keep in your bankroll, why don't you agree to cash out x% of your bankroll increase each month? This will allow you to continue building the bankroll, while also cashing out some profits.

I use 25% as my cash out basis, and divide that cash 50/50 between my son's college fund and our vacation fund. It is pretty nice that my wife and I can take two vacations a year, that is completely paid for with poker, my son's college fund benefits, and my bankroll still increases to allow me to move up in limits when the time is right.

Just in case this isnt clear, using simple round numbers:
May 1 bankroll - $10k
May 31 bankroll - $14k
Withdraw 25% of increase - ($1k)
Adjusted June 1 bankroll - $13k.

[Brandonjp13]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of having a certain amount to keep in your bankroll, why don't you agree to cash out x% of your bankroll increase each month? This will allow you to continue building the bankroll, while also cashing out some profits.

I use 25% as my cash out basis, and divide that cash 50/50 between my son's college fund and our vacation fund. It is pretty nice that my wife and I can take two vacations a year, that is completely paid for with poker, my son's college fund benefits, and my bankroll still increases to allow me to move up in limits when the time is right.

Just in case this isnt clear, using simple round numbers:
May 1 bankroll - $10k
May 31 bankroll - $14k
Withdraw 25% of increase - ($1k)
Adjusted June 1 bankroll - $13k.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is what i'll use once I build my roll to an acceptable limit to start with. It also what i've read/heard alot of professional/top players suggest for managing rolls if your looking to withdraw and still keep a steady growth.

[0evg0]

SUGGESTION:

Don't lose 2/3 of your bankroll in one night playing 5/10 and 10/20 O8B

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeee

HELLLOOOO $4/180s!!

[Nez477]

[ QUOTE ]
Instead of having a certain amount to keep in your bankroll, why don't you agree to cash out x% of your bankroll increase each month? This will allow you to continue building the bankroll, while also cashing out some profits.

I use 25% as my cash out basis, and divide that cash 50/50 between my son's college fund and our vacation fund. It is pretty nice that my wife and I can take two vacations a year, that is completely paid for with poker, my son's college fund benefits, and my bankroll still increases to allow me to move up in limits when the time is right.

Just in case this isnt clear, using simple round numbers:
May 1 bankroll - $10k
May 31 bankroll - $14k
Withdraw 25% of increase - ($1k)
Adjusted June 1 bankroll - $13k.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rick, this was absolutely terrific advice, and one that I've decided to go with. This way I can continue to build my roll and cash out along the way.

Thanks!

Brad