Announcing an intention.. legal? binding?

flatline · #1 06-02-2006, 02:34 PM

I always thought it was OK to announce an intention, something like "when the betting gets to me I'm raising". A recent discussion I had made me realize I'm not sure what the rule is and I didn't find it in Robert's rules. Specifically, someone asked this:

What do you think about this situation in reference to intention and actually betting. You are in the late stages of a tourney and everyone except the next player out makes the money. You have an above average stack and are the BB, the small blind also has an above average stack. Everyone folds to the button so there are there people left. The big blind is a short stack and moves all in. You look down and find 7 2 offsuit and know you are not going to call. So before the SB acts you state your intentions that you are going to fold your hand.

This just seems wrong, so I figured I'd see if anyone knows the actual answer. If you announce an intention, is it binding? Is it legal to do this at all?

weimoxer · #2 06-02-2006, 02:41 PM

That could be colluding, some1 is letting the other player earlier to act that he is folding, hence making it easier for him to call a mediocre hand against a short stack. He prob would not call not knowing if big stack behind is going to call or go over top of him, then making him crippled. It is the diff of $$ btw, so thats what may make this collusion. I could be wrong.

Mik1w · #3 06-02-2006, 02:42 PM

I *think* the rule is that any action out of turn is ignored. However that example is more than just acting out of turn, seems like collusion against the button and its not far from announcing your hole cards in effect.

flatline · #4 06-02-2006, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I *think* the rule is that any action out of turn is ignored. However that example is more than just acting out of turn, seems like collusion against the button and its not far from announcing your hole cards in effect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you say that if someone said "When it gets to me I'm raising" is legal and non-binding? Where do you draw the line?

Mik1w · #5 06-02-2006, 02:55 PM

I would say it depends on intention.. if it's accidental, it's okay.

I don't know if that's the official rule in a casino, that's just where I'd draw it.

flatline · #6 06-02-2006, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would say it depends on intention.. if it's accidental, it's okay.

I don't know if that's the official rule in a casino, that's just where I'd draw it.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I'm not asking about someone accidentially betting out of turn, I'm asking about someone announcing an intention to make an action when it is their turn.

weimoxer · #7 06-02-2006, 03:06 PM

I think i see what your saying. Like someone saying, I am all in here, and not doing it just trying to get a limp in from sb or something alog those lines. That is more of a vocal bluff as in people saying what cards they hold and not being true. Whereas this instance anything you say will only be hurting your chances or the other persons chances with only 3 of u to act before the money. That becomes the sticky part, I think.. It would be like a sat to the WSOP and 3 left, smaller stack goes all in, and sb, has K J or something along those lines, u say I am folding out of turn, he prob insta calls knowing his chances are not going to be effected by you, and better of taking down the pot and the world series seat. This is all retroactive to chip stacks and such.

flatline · #8 06-02-2006, 03:15 PM

Pretty much, except that I am not asking about someone actually folding out of turn. We know you can't do that. I am asking about someone saying "I'm going to fold when its my turn".

I don't see how there can be some kind of fuzzy standard that allows you to state an intention at a 9 player table, but not in a 3 player game.

weimoxer · #9 06-02-2006, 03:21 PM

You dont announce it until short stack is all in from his position, when only 3 of you left in hand. If you announced it at the beginning of hand, I doubt he could say anything. It appears it was said after an all in took place from a short stack and you were in a position to give the other position question in the call.

juanez · #10 06-03-2006, 03:23 AM

From Roberts Rules under "Proper Behavior":

The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:
- Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot.

In our room if a player makes a statement of action out of turn, he MAY be forced to do what he said if his statement influenced the action of others. ie: Saying "I'm all in" out of turn when there are players to act ahead of you.