55s - AQ versus min raiser

[Phil Van Sexton]

There had been a lot of weird limping and min-raising at this table. I couldn't remember if the villian had been one of the worst offenders or not, but I seemed to remember him making some weird plays too.


PartyPoker Speed Tournament, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed)
UTG (t4204)
UTG+1 (t1796)
MP1 (t2240)
MP2 (t2140)
MP3 (t2750)
CO (t1500)
Hero (t1790)
SB (t2074)
BB (t1506)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with Ad Qc:
2 folds, MP1 raises to t200,
3 folds, Hero raises to t400,
2 folds, MP1 raises to t600,
Hero folds

[EJXD2]

So it was $200 to call into a pot of $1,150? I kind of like the odds there. It's hard to put someone on AA, AK, KK, QQ based on the table you described. Those hands are possible, of course, but not so much so that I'm folding an 23-to-4 proposition with AQ.

[gumpzilla]

I'd rather just call than minraise and fold to a raise, though I can certainly understand why you weren't very excited about your hand at that point.

[jafeather]

You're getting almost 6-1 with your AQ PF. Make the call, or even think about pushing. With the way villian's acting I'd think you either have the best o it right now, or are on the down side of the flip. Either way, you've got odds, baby!
[EDIT:] What am I thinking by saying make the call???? PUSH, MAN, PUSH!

[wiggs73]

PVS,

What's the deal with making it t400 pre-flop?

[TravestyFund]

I would prob shove the first time it got to me. At level 3 I reallly dont give MP min raises much credit. As played, I would always see a flop after this re-minraise. If you put him on really strong, chck/fold a bricked flop.

[gumpzilla]

The min 4-bet is going to be QQ+ very, very often. I'm not sure how hard you get paid when you hit your A, so looking at just the direct odds I don't think this is a terrible fold, though calling would certainly be fine and possibly still superior from a pure chip EV perspective.

The main argument that I can see for minraising in this spot is that you find out pretty cheaply whether you're beat or not. I think AQ is too much hand here for a resteal type move, but these minraises can be suspicious often enough that some caution might be in order. That said, calling the initial bet still seems better to me. If an A comes I'm probably willing to go broke (since I think this is a more likely play for a biggish pair than AK), if a Q comes I'll see what happens postflop, if I whiff I'm done. Looked at this way I don't think there are a lot of scenarios where I'm putting much money in behind postflop and so it seems likely to be cheaper on balance. Some players like this will continue betting weakly on all three streets, doing my pot control for me. Others will get cutesy preflop and then immediately pot the flop. Against that kind of player I may consider laying down Q's that come as TP.

[pineapple888]

I don't see much reason to get involved here in the first place, but if I have the read that he's a moron, I just push to start with.

[Phil Van Sexton]

PVS,

What's the deal with making it t400 pre-flop?

Well, this was a problem with a lack of reads. I really couldn't remember if this guy was a tool or not. I figured 400 was enough to at least isolate him, and maybe figure out what was going on.

Once I'm re-raised, I knew I was done. These guys were limping and min-raising like noobs, but they weren't so tricky to min-4 bet me without a monster.

So I folded, which was my plan if he re-raised. Now I'm just trying to figure out if my plan was stupid.

[uphigh_downlow]

it just seems like a lotta goofy play going on

how were you expecting to get any information about one goofy play with another.

No pun intended!!

A good way to answer your puzzle is what was your postflop plan, if he called. especially given the fact that you have position on him.

also creating a larger pot preflop makes any post-flop plan rather hard to execute, atleast by limiting several choices.

I suspect you just wanted to know if he was going to reraise or not, but feel that if you wanted a serious answer you needed to ask the question more seriously with more authority.