10/20 Bet Sizes and Finesse

[theBruiser500]

In EP/MP raise to $60 with Ac Kc with 1900 behind. NExt person to act calls me, no read. HU flop comes Ks Jc 5c, I bet $110 into $150 pot figuring I just want to leech as much money out of his stack as possible and not allow the check behind.

He calls, turn comes Ao. Pot is $370 I bet $210, with the same logic and he minraises me not instantly, but fast. What now? Time almost runs out on me and I call. River is 7d, pot is $1200 I have about $1300 left. I feel like I should get all his money but am afraid an overbet of all in will scare him and my greediness for that $100 will cost me a pot sized bet. A c/r will probably work but he could be a scared player who checks behind two pair which would be a disaster. I led out $1,000...

[theBruiser500]

8 or 9 handed.

[El Diablo]

bruiser,

minraise him back!

[ML4L]

[ QUOTE ]
In EP/MP raise to $60 with Ac Kc with 1900 behind. NExt person to act calls me, no read. HU flop comes Ks Jc 5c, I bet $110 into $150 pot figuring I just want to leech as much money out of his stack as possible and not allow the check behind.

He calls, turn comes Ao. Pot is $370 I bet $210, with the same logic and he minraises me not instantly, but fast. What now? Time almost runs out on me and I call. River is 7d, pot is $1200 I have about $1300 left. I feel like I should get all his money but am afraid an overbet of all in will scare him and my greediness for that $100 will cost me a pot sized bet. A c/r will probably work but he could be a scared player who checks behind two pair which would be a disaster. I led out $1,000...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious to see what others think, because FWIW, betting $1,000 on the river is probably the last thing I would want to do...

ML4L

[bmxicle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In EP/MP raise to $60 with Ac Kc with 1900 behind. NExt person to act calls me, no read. HU flop comes Ks Jc 5c, I bet $110 into $150 pot figuring I just want to leech as much money out of his stack as possible and not allow the check behind.

He calls, turn comes Ao. Pot is $370 I bet $210, with the same logic and he minraises me not instantly, but fast. What now? Time almost runs out on me and I call. River is 7d, pot is $1200 I have about $1300 left. I feel like I should get all his money but am afraid an overbet of all in will scare him and my greediness for that $100 will cost me a pot sized bet. A c/r will probably work but he could be a scared player who checks behind two pair which would be a disaster. I led out $1,000...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious to see what others think, because FWIW, betting $1,000 on the river is probably the last thing I would want to do...

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, against a significant number of 2k full ring ops you are only getting called by something that ties you or beats you. I also think the flop call, turn min-raise line that your opponent took is often a set, and from some opponents can ONLY be a set.

[BluffTHIS!]

Bruiser,

You said you had no read, but you are trying to play him like an idiot on the river. You risk running off a worse 2 pair hand while only getting action from a hand that beats you. He has to specifically put you on AK not to bet 2 pair again if you check it to him on the river. I don't like playing people for idiots until I've already seen proof that they are.

[fnord_too]

I would bet 800-1000 there with no read. I might try to get tricky and cost myself some money if I thought he was aggressive enough to come over the top of a weak ass bet like $400, but I think here you just have to stick a decent bet out and take what you can get.

[cwl]

i dont understand the turn/river combo. on the river it looks like your willing to get all your money in but what hand can he have that is more likely to put money in on the river than on the turn? if your gonna call the turn i would assume its either because:
a) you are losing too often to get yourself allin and dont want to commit all your money
b) you think he is full of it often enough to give him some rope.

it doesnt sound as if a applies and betting out on the river clashes with b.

i think you have a couple options that might be ok.
- just commit to your hand on the turn, the nut flush draw will probably come along and this is the best time to get his money. a hand like JT that was peeling the flop and is now screwing around with the A hitting will probably shutdown unless it catches a card to beat you so there isnt much value in just calling vs this type of hand either.
- call the turn and check/call the river. if he has you beat there is a decent chance he will make a weakish bet on the river and you will actually get to showdown more cheaply. this gives him some room to bluff if he was not legit on the turn and the only really reasonable hands he could have that you beat on the turn, AJ/KJ, will value bet anyway. the biggest downside of this is if he would check behind with a weakish A high flush draw that turned top pair.
- call the turn and make a weak river bet that can get called by a hand like KQ. i dont think this is all that great but if you think its relatively likely your beat and feel good about your decision when raised there is some merit to this.

as it is i dont understand what hands your line is best against

[ML4L]

[ QUOTE ]
i dont understand the turn/river combo. on the river it looks like your willing to get all your money in but what hand can he have that is more likely to put money in on the river than on the turn? if your gonna call the turn i would assume its either because:
a) you are losing too often to get yourself allin and dont want to commit all your money
b) you think he is full of it often enough to give him some rope.

it doesnt sound as if a applies and betting out on the river clashes with b.

i think you have a couple options that might be ok.
- just commit to your hand on the turn, the nut flush draw will probably come along and this is the best time to get his money. a hand like JT that was peeling the flop and is now screwing around with the A hitting will probably shutdown unless it catches a card to beat you so there isnt much value in just calling vs this type of hand either.
- call the turn and check/call the river. if he has you beat there is a decent chance he will make a weakish bet on the river and you will actually get to showdown more cheaply. this gives him some room to bluff if he was not legit on the turn and the only really reasonable hands he could have that you beat on the turn, AJ/KJ, will value bet anyway. the biggest downside of this is if he would check behind with a weakish A high flush draw that turned top pair.
- call the turn and make a weak river bet that can get called by a hand like KQ. i dont think this is all that great but if you think its relatively likely your beat and feel good about your decision when raised there is some merit to this.

as it is i dont understand what hands your line is best against

[/ QUOTE ]

On the turn, Bruiser has the nut flush draw to go with his top two.

ML4L

[theBruiser500]

the flop and turn bets and bet sizes are up for discussion too