AK in SB...postflop analysis?

Back In Black · #1 05-23-2006, 03:47 PM

I'm trying to reevaluate how I handle AK postflop. I tend to get much too aggressive on early streets and then give up later, losing a lot when I miss without a showdown.

So I'm not used to playing AK passively in a multiway pot postflop.

UTG just sat down, other players involved are 45/6/1-ish.

Is this standard?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Spleen · #2 05-23-2006, 04:08 PM

I have a tendancy to lead the flop with AK on a whiff, figuring If I can call a bet a may as well bet it, hoping to get a free card somewhere ( which usually doesnt happen for me hmm, maybe I am on to something). I stink, so take it FWIW.

lautzutao · #3 05-23-2006, 04:20 PM

I'd bet this flop, then check the turn. OOP sucks with AK whiffs, but here you at least got some outs besides spiking a pair should you be behind.

Grease · #4 05-23-2006, 04:40 PM

I try mixing up checking and seeing what happens and betting out with AK after a whiffed flop. I tend to bet out more than not, but I'm trying to ascertain whether or not this is a leak in my game. If I'm against uber-LP, I tend to check, and if I'm playing against tighter players, I tend to bet. If there's a maniac to my left, I bet and pray he raises trash.

I find that I suck at playing overs OOP, but I think only the best players are comfortable with this, and Lord knows I'm not one of the select few.

I think this hand epitomizes a lot of problems I've been finding in my game, and I'd really like to see what the more experienced posters have to say about it.

DawnToDusk · #5 05-23-2006, 04:42 PM

AK is a tricky hand to play, especially OOP and when you miss. If I have some info on the player that says they are going to the river lots with whatever they have, then I will value bet when the board is uncoordinated (assuming I miss) or when I actually connect with the board. If you have known this guy to limp and fold often then I would fire one here as well. Other wise after betting the flop I would just hope to check it down and if he fired at me would probably give up this hand.

As for being aggressive with AK, there are times when to be and when not to be.

Like for example, if you are on the button and get 3 limpers and raise, then you are raising your hand more for value. Your hand is likely to be best in this situation, but you know you aren't going to force out any of the limpers (and maybe not any of the blinds either). In the case where you miss the flop and it is checked to you, I would just take a free card with so many limpers. There is just no point in my mind (unless all the limpers are tight and firing buys you outs) to fire into a pot with 3-4 loose players who are likely to call with a wide range of hands. Especially if draws are out.

Nfinity · #6 05-23-2006, 05:44 PM

I play it the same.

Huge field, somebody caught something, I don't want to take the chance that it's something they will make it 2 with when I still have outs to improve. A lot of my outs are dirty as well. I would like to see the Turn as cheap as possible if at all.

Back In Black · #7 05-23-2006, 06:08 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. In the past I would almost auto-continuation bet when raised. I'm trying to get better at controlling the amount of bets I put into a pot and trying to improve my relative position during a hand.

HitKing4192 · #8 05-23-2006, 06:26 PM

I've started just completing with AK on occasion after multiple limpers, and seen that (I feel) it helps me limit my losses when I miss and get more value when I hit. This way, if I flop an A or K I can check/raise the flop or turn (depennding on if I want to knock out anyone in middle on the flop), get one or more of those bets back and typically win a nice pot. A lot of times I'll get called down by A9 or something b/c they assume I have a small A since I didn't raise PF. If I don't flop an A or K, I can fold and have only lost 1/2 small bet. Additionally, this helps disguise my hand when I complete with worse hands (87, K8s etc), and sometimes allows me to pick up a pot when I make the same move with my draw as I get respect for my CR.

Before you call me a passive fish, I NEVER play this way with big pocket pairs and multiple limpers, preferring to show aggression until someone challenges me when I'm sure I'm ahead (and yes, this does make me predictable, but it works with AA for the same reason it DOESN'T work w/ AK...because people expect you to have AK and raise a ragged flop). I also never do it with only one limper or in any case I see value in raising out the BB but with 2 or 3 already in pot he's likely not going anywhere with anything I fear.

Back In Black · #9 05-23-2006, 07:28 PM

I've had this discussion many times before and it's just plain wrong to not raise AK...we're giving much too much pot equity by not raising here. And I think this is more true the MORE limpers there are.

...with premium hands, especially preflop, you have to think of how much you can WIN, not how little you can LOSE.

TJ Eckleburg · #10 05-23-2006, 07:52 PM

[bold articulation of independent thought]

I hate hate hate the flop check in this particular hand. A flop bet/call is not so much a continuation bet as it is a semibluff. We have 10 outs to TPTK or broadway! And we get all the positives from a continuation bet. Fold equity/take it down right there has already been mentioned...

but what about making the pot big enough to possibly peel the turn with our 10-outing selves? I bet/call the flop and check/call depending on the turn and number of opponents.

[/bold articulation of independent thought]

flame away...