Jacks : My worst friend

Hybrid_11 · #1 05-19-2006, 03:12 PM

villian 15 vpip and 5 pfr

any changes or does this seem ok?
i got convinced on the river that my jacks were no good
i make this decision to hard by showing no aggression?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($22.10)
UTG+1 ($54.26)
MP1 ($62.57)
MP2 ($47.92)
CO ($49.25)
Button ($30.40)
Hero ($44.20)
BB ($49.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, MP1 raises to $2, 3 folds, Hero (poster) calls $1.75, 1 fold.

Flop: ($4.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($12.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $8, Hero calls $8.

River: ($28.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $19, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $47.50

ImsaKidd · #2 05-19-2006, 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i got convinced on the river that my jacks were no good
i make this decision to hard by showing no aggression?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. This guy is nittish, and you are OOP. As played, you shouldnt call the turn if you are going to fold a blank river.

However, I am lost as to the "correct" play. I think I like calling the flop and leading the turn. This guy will cont bet UI AK, but will almost definitely fold to a turn bet, even a relatively small one.

djoyce003 · #3 05-19-2006, 03:29 PM

try minraising the turn to get a free showdown, or just dump them.

jskinn04 · #4 05-19-2006, 03:29 PM

Bet 3/4 pot on the flop.
If he minraises call and lead for 2/3 pot- 3/4 pot on the turn. Don't put any more significant money into the hand if he's still around at this point. If the turn is an ace, c/f.
If he makes a substantial raise on the flop, fold.
If he calls, bet 3/4 pot to full pot on turn. Again, c/f if an ace hits. Don't put any more money into the hand if he's still around after the turn.

These lines spend about the same amount of money as c/c but they also put some pressure on villain. Maybe he'll decide you trapped preflop and fold QQ on the turn. Never know.

Against a LAG villian, I'd b3b all-in on the flop and I'd likely continue to spend money on the turn and river if no ace shows up.

SamuraiDuck · #5 05-19-2006, 03:35 PM

Villains PF raising range from MP is most likely AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQ. If you lead flop for a PSB, then if he calls your flop bet you can safely c/f the turn, because villain would fold his AK/AQ on the flop, so he must have you beaten.

ChipStorm · #6 05-19-2006, 03:39 PM

OOP against a villain this tight, I take the cheapest line possible short of playing purely for set value: call preflop, lead any flop of undercards or one over (otherwise c/f), and that's all I put in unimproved.

Calling the flop and leading the turn may convince some better hands to fold, but it's a more expensive line. I'd rather assume he's tight enough to fold to my flop lead if he's on overs and missed.

You could also reraise preflop to better define his hand, but if he smooth calls then you're still OOP with an even bigger pot; yuck.

jskinn04 · #7 05-19-2006, 03:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villains PF raising range from MP is most likely AA,KK,QQ,JJ,AK,AQ. If you lead flop for a PSB, then if he calls your flop bet you can safely c/f the turn, because villain would fold his AK/AQ on the flop, so he must have you beaten.

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain does not float then yes, you can assume you're beaten. Good point.

BigBiceps · #8 05-19-2006, 03:58 PM

If you are going to play it like that just fold preflop.

Raise flop to 12, and fold if he comes OTP of you.
You lose the same as you lose in your line, and you can take it down right there if your are ahead.

xwillience · #9 05-19-2006, 04:02 PM

there two options here. c/r the flop. and be done. or c/c the flop and c/f the turn. I doubt some nitty villian is going to fire a second shot on the turn with nothing but over cards.

SamuraiDuck · #10 05-19-2006, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
there two options here. c/r the flop. and be done. or c/c the flop and c/f the turn. I doubt some nitty villian is going to fire a second shot on the turn with nothing but over cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why do we want to c/r the flop? We bloat a pot when we are OOP with a marginal hand...
c/c the flop and leading the turn isn't so bad, since it does gain value from hands we beat (it gains a c-bet from AK/AQ).