$11 Fold JJ L1 preflop?

ddg333 · #1 01-13-2006, 09:17 PM

Anyone play this one out?

PartyPoker, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t825)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO+1 (t800)
CO (t800)
Hero (t790)
SB (t785)
BB (t800)

Preflop: Hero is in Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t75, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO+1 raises to t135, CO folds, Hero ???

ALReturnsLOL · #2 01-13-2006, 09:39 PM

I would say this is a fold. A re-raise pf at this level almost always means trouble.

reed62783 · #3 01-13-2006, 09:47 PM

FOLD...for example if either have QQ,KK,AA then ur screwed...if one has K10 (unlikely maybe KQ) and the other AQ then ur screwed...but then again at this level UTG may be raising with Q10, Ax, Kxs...i still toss it

Gunther · #4 01-13-2006, 09:53 PM

I would probably raise here in posistion, if he comes BACK over the top...well then you can probably get away from it. The question is how much. Your goal is to isolate the re-raiser. I would say, make it 270 or so. If he has AA,KK,QQ at this point he may push all in...which you can easily fold because you would be left with 520. His calling would make me put him on something like AK, or AQ.

reed62783 · #5 01-13-2006, 09:56 PM

i dont think the original raiser is going anywhere in the 11s.. i think 75%+ he is calling whatever is pushed at him

Gunther · #6 01-13-2006, 09:59 PM

Min re-raises always bug me. I tend to think it is more weak then anything. He may not want to commit too much, but he may be suckering you in. I would probably play this out with much of a read.

GtrHtr · #7 01-14-2006, 01:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably raise here in posistion, if he comes BACK over the top...well then you can probably get away from it. The question is how much. Your goal is to isolate the re-raiser. I would say, make it 270 or so. If he has AA,KK,QQ at this point he may push all in...which you can easily fold because you would be left with 520. His calling would make me put him on something like AK, or AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is horrible advice. This hand is a push/fold situation - mostly the later. Get away from it after raising PF to 270? You have just put 1/3 of your stack into the pot. Do you regularly donk off 1/3 of your stack on the hopes of drawing a set?

Lets say the flop comes A37. What's ur play? What if its Qc9c3c? What do you do?

You are not going to isolate anything at an 11 when 2 players have done what is in the OP.

Scruff · #8 01-14-2006, 01:31 AM

I'm going all-in. In the rare case where he has AA-QQ, fine, I lose 80% of the time. If he calls me with AK, AQ, or maybe even AJ, yippee. If he has 88-TT, yippee.

Folding JJ here before the flop on the 2nd hand of the tourney (when the tourney is rich with bad players who haven't busted out yet) is incredibly weak-tight. This is a no brainer push to me, and I want the call.

If I'm up against AA-QQ, then I buy in to the next $11 S&G, and hope to get all of my chips in with JJ on the 2nd flop again.

Scruff · #9 01-14-2006, 01:43 AM

UTG+1 won the first hand of the tourney, looks like he stole the blinds (best read I can get given the information). This a classic spot for the squeeze play.

The only read you can have at this point is that he's LAG. If the re-raiser is good, he sees this and tries to isolate, and doesn't need a monster to do this. If he's bad, the range he's re-raising with has to have JJ as a favorite. Either way, you are likely ahead.

So you make him make a decision for all of his chips - on the 2nd hand. If he's good, unless he has QQ-AA his hand is going to shrivel up in his mind. If he's not, he's going to call you with hands like AQ, AK, KQ, AJ, or 77-TT.

I don't see how this is anything but a push. Sure there is some risk. But there's no way a push isn't +EV here.

Sherman · #10 01-14-2006, 01:51 AM

I think I fold many good hands quite often in the first two levels (including JJ & AQs) for this kind of action. I would even fold QQ for if their was a third raiser. I find that the players at the $11s are soooo bad that you can pass up this one and beat them later.

However, if I had to play this hand, I would push and hope that the reraiser had AK or AQ and my jacks held.

In this case, I typically just let it go.