99 - rag flop; two bets to me in pre-flop capped pot 4-ways

Catt · #1 05-09-2006, 08:04 PM

Been awhile; I'm a bit rusty. Virtually no reads -- just sat down and PAHUD shows pre-flop capper as 55/30/2 but over only ~30 hands (for all I know could have been full table or HU).

Flop play?

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP caps, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP raises, Hero . . .

Edit: Edited title to hopefully avoid confusion.

Nate tha\\\' Great · #2 05-09-2006, 09:25 PM

It ain't pretty but I think you need to call and re-evaluate on the turn. 3-betting is tempting, but I don't think you're ahead enough to justify re-opening the betting by trying to protect your hand.

Pog0 · #3 05-09-2006, 09:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It ain't pretty but I think you need to call and re-evaluate on the turn. 3-betting is tempting, but I don't think you're ahead enough to justify re-opening the betting by trying to protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think both this and raising the flop are good. There are just so many bad cards that can come on the turn. Just about everything but a 2 or a 9 sucks. If there's a chance of folding out UTG or BB's weak draw with a 3-bet here, I'd go for it. MP will have overcards here often enough that you're ahead fairly often on this flop.

If you can drop players by raising here, do it. If not, raise the turn if the card doesn't kill you.

gehrig · #4 05-09-2006, 09:37 PM

i like calling and c/r'ing most turns

Nate tha\\\' Great · #5 05-09-2006, 09:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It ain't pretty but I think you need to call and re-evaluate on the turn. 3-betting is tempting, but I don't think you're ahead enough to justify re-opening the betting by trying to protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think both this and raising the flop are good. There are just so many bad cards that can come on the turn. Just about everything but a 2 or a 9 sucks. If there's a chance of folding out UTG or BB's weak draw with a 3-bet here, I'd go for it. MP will have overcards here often enough that you're ahead fairly often on this flop.

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I think we're getting optimstic about MP having just overcards. There are lots of players in these games that get out of line preflop, but many fewer who go completely buckwild postflop in multiway pots. Obviosuly, overcards w/a flush draw are possible (which is not great news for you), as are a few hands like A7s and 88 that you're actually ahead of. But I wouldn't assign more than a 5-10% possibility of a naked AK or something.

gehrig · #6 05-09-2006, 09:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It ain't pretty but I think you need to call and re-evaluate on the turn. 3-betting is tempting, but I don't think you're ahead enough to justify re-opening the betting by trying to protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think both this and raising the flop are good. There are just so many bad cards that can come on the turn. Just about everything but a 2 or a 9 sucks. If there's a chance of folding out UTG or BB's weak draw with a 3-bet here, I'd go for it. MP will have overcards here often enough that you're ahead fairly often on this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we're getting optimstic about MP having just overcards. There are lots of players in these games that get out of line preflop, but many fewer who go completely buckwild postflop in multiway pots. Obviosuly, overcards w/a flush draw are possible (which is not great news for you), as are a few hands like A7s and 88 that you're actually ahead of. But I wouldn't assign more than a 5-10% possibility of a naked AK or something.

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wow, i disagree. i think this guy is raising with any hand he decided to cap with. he's not going "completely buckwild", it's not like he 3bet the turn

The Bryce · #7 05-09-2006, 10:10 PM

Oh man, you really need to grit your teeth to continue here. Even IF you are ahead you don't have very much equity with the other two guys still in the pot. Even though there's a decent chance this guy might be crazy, I think I would make a confident fold.

gaming_mouse · #8 05-09-2006, 10:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It ain't pretty but I think you need to call and re-evaluate on the turn. 3-betting is tempting, but I don't think you're ahead enough to justify re-opening the betting by trying to protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate,

You mind elaborating because this seems like an easy fold to me? What are hoping is going to happen on the turn, eg?

Josh. · #9 05-09-2006, 10:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It ain't pretty but I think you need to call and re-evaluate on the turn. 3-betting is tempting, but I don't think you're ahead enough to justify re-opening the betting by trying to protect your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate,

You mind elaborating because this seems like an easy fold to me? What are hoping is going to happen on the turn, eg?

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easy fold??? the PFR is likely to be a lag (passive players don't happen to raise 9 of their first 30 hands) so his capping preflop then raising doesn't tell me much. the unknown bb betting out means nothing to me. there are 2 draws out there.

Josh. · #10 05-09-2006, 10:36 PM

with MP having position, i think he's taking a free card too often to try and get in that perfect turn checkraise. i'd 3-bet it now. folding in what is now a 20 bet pot looks very very bad to me