working under the table

man · #1 05-07-2006, 09:15 PM

there's a number of questions I have about under-the-table standards but my old boss from last summer and I had a disagreement tonight about some stuff. (funny that it didn't come up until now.)

I used to work for a landlord doing remodeling and renovation and crap. (I loved it and seriously considered starting a remodeling company, but it probably would have gone busto in under a year.) I left my tools with my old boss at the end of the summer because I'm a bungling idiot, and didn't get (some of) them back until recently. I went back tonight to get the rest, and since he had used some of them I asked for him to replace the damaged ones. (half of my drill bits were gone, the rest were rusted to [censored], he lost a few other tools.)

during the summer I was driving his truck, and broke a side-view mirror. the mirror was intact, but the electronics were damaged and took about $150 off the value of the car when he traded it in. when I asked him for reimbursement for my tools, he cited this as a reason for not having to.

in my mind, when I'm being paid under the table, doing jobs he asks me to do, and using his tools, I'm an employee. not an independent contractor. as far as I know, it's the employer's liability if his employee [censored] something up of his.

however when he used my tools without my explicit permission (I actually don't mind, I'd just rather they weren't the tools he used primarily), I think he's responsible for reimbursing me for lost/damaged tools. I'm pretty sure I lost about $50 in value from wear/tear/loss. I think he should pay me $50 or replace my tools, and not give a second thought to the damaged mirror.

what do you guys think? results to follow!

I don't really care about the legal aspects of this unless it provides interesting insights into our disagreement.

absoludicrous · #2 05-07-2006, 09:19 PM

soko · #3 05-07-2006, 09:20 PM

Aside from what might make sense, Without a law degree I don't believe anyone will be able to give you the correct legal advice here. In fact, the correct legal answer would probally vary from state to state.

man · #4 05-07-2006, 09:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Aside from what might make sense, Without a law degree I don't believe anyone will be able to give you the correct legal advice here. In fact, the correct legal answer would probally vary from state to state.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really care about the legal aspects of this unless it provides interesting insights into our disagreement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering what people think is right, I don't really care about what's legal. although I understand that lots of people have thought a lot about this kind of thing (they're called "lawyers"), and can use their experience to provide useful advice on this matter.

neuroman · #5 05-07-2006, 09:59 PM

I think you should have paid for the broken mirror.
I think you should not have left your tools with him for such a long period of time.
I think he should pay for your damaged and missing tools.
I think you should let the whole thing slide and not make such a big deal out of this.

TimM · #6 05-07-2006, 10:13 PM

You damaged the guy's truck and he didn't ask you for reimbursement. You stupidly left your tools with someone who was going to use them on jobs, where bad things can happen to tools. You should take some responsibility for your actions and forget about the small loss to your tools.

man · #7 05-07-2006, 10:13 PM

I don't think I should've paid for the broken mirror because I was working for him at the time. if I had borrowed his car to do something I needed to do, of course I would pay for it. but I was doing something he had hired me to do. I could be wrong about this but generally I think think that's part of the risk the employer takes.

we came to a friendly solution and you're right, it's not a big deal, I just thought it was an interesting question.

man · #8 05-07-2006, 10:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You damaged the guy's truck and he didn't ask you for reimbursement. You stupidly left your tools with someone who was going to use them on jobs, where bad things can happen to tools. You should take some responsibility for your actions and forget about the small loss to your tools.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think he should've asked me for reimbursement at the time if he thought it was right, and we would've worked it out then. but, as an employee I don't really think I'm supposed to.

if I leave my cellphone at my friend's house, I don't expect him to use it when he has his own cellphone to use. but, if his breaks or something, I don't care if he makes an occasional call.

I think to do what I said earlier would be taking full due responsibility, actually.

I could be wrong about all this! that's why I'm asking what you guys think.

guids · #9 05-07-2006, 10:23 PM

meh, this is part of what working under the table entails, stuff happens, usually it all evens out, and you dont havve to pay taxes, Id let it go.

man · #10 05-07-2006, 10:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
meh, this is part of what working under the table entails, stuff happens, usually it all evens out, and you dont havve to pay taxes, Id let it go.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah genearlly I think a good rule of thumb is to be cool in these situations and let a little bit of $$ value slide in favor of good relations. something that may or may not be worth mentioning is that this guy also has a habit of trimming off the hours you worked for him so it's not like I owe him anything for being a good boss.

again it's not really this situation I'm too worried about, I just think it's the kind of thing that will come up a lot in the future wherever I work.