Any Theories Or Strategies For A Table Full Of Maniacal Novices?

[ArcadianSky]

In this situation, when I say "novices" I mean people who have played the game less than five times in their entire lives... literally. I've been playing NLHE (SnG) a lot of my friends lately (they started playing about a month ago) and I have a reoccuring problem: How the hell do I beat new players? If I'm not hitting cards (the nuts imparticular), the blinds will swallow my stack so bluffing seems to be the only option... and that's a problem bc I can't bluff them! It never works! They're calling stations and can't read the board good enough to factor in the hands that can have them beat and that I could potentially hold, so every time I bluff, I get called. All of them overplay their hands so badly that I never know if they hit something big or little when they bet because, quite frankly, they don't even know what they hit sometimes. I give them terrible prices for their draws, but all 9 of them call no matter what and hit their two pair, flushes, sraights and sets on the turn and river. Any theories or strategies that can help me? The reason I ask this question is because I want to try and adapt to every style of play possible, and this is the only instance where I have no idea what to do.

Thanks guys/girls!!!!!

[MathEconomist]

Wait for big hands. Punish them mercilessly for their bad calls once you have them. It really isn't that complicated or hard. Sometimes you won't get the big hands and will get blinded down until you have to take a stand. It happens. Just because the people you're playing with suck doesn't mean you get to win every single time.

[shmoosh]

How many chips do you play with and what is the blind structure like?

[PokrLikeItsProse]

Play a bit weak-tight and be less aggressive with your medium strength hands. Check the flop more often. See how they like it when you make pre-flop all-ins. Go all-in with strong draws on the flop when you know you will have multiple callers who will it a +EV situation. And, obviously, don't bluff.

Also, lower your expectations. If you're the best player and it's a ten-handed SNG, don't expect to win the entire thing more than 2 out of 10 times. You might win more, but don't go in with the expectation that you should win more often than not.

[kazana]

My $0.02:

Playing the lowest buy-in SNGs is one of the few games where I'm actually winning, so far.

As far as I am concerned, there are basically two options for early play:
1) Sit back, relax. Let them take each other out. Only play AA-QQ and AK (preferrably suited). When playing KK and QQ, limp in, and if the flop shows an overcard, dump it.
2) As long as your M >= 40, try to see as many flops as cheap as possible, up to with literally any two suited, remotely connected cards in late position. Only continue on the flop if you hit a real monster (set+, strong straight with no flush draws, strong flush).

I prefer 1) over 2), but that's simply because the weakling in me likes to sit out the difficult part. I also tend to play rather passivley, once I've got a solid hand, but only if I'm sure someone else will do the betting for me. Once I'm certain I've got the nuts, I'll pop him back, and let him push (believe me, they often do with 2nd-5th best hand).

The closer you get to the bubble the more aggressive you can play.
Once ITM, slow down a slight bit, but keep aggression very high.

Playing like that, I've got a ITM ratio of 45%+. ~45% of those 1st, ~35% 2nd, ~20% 3rd.

Also, keep in mind that in most of these SNGs you'll have to survive about 2 all-ins to get into the money. So only push (or call) if you're fairly certain that you're at least 65% vs 35% favourite. Never, I repeat, never call an all-in for a typical coin-flip (most commonly in these levels SNGs: JJ-22 vs AK/AQ/KQ/QJ).

The chance to survive 2 consecutive all-ins with a 65% edge gives you an overall chance of survival of 42%. Pretty much the ratio you'll need to beat this game.

[RagnarPirate]

The most important thing to do is to increase the starting stack size, decrease the blinds, and extend the length of the rounds.

I've played these types of home games with family / friends. And, while mildly entertaining, you can't expect skill to matter when you start with M at 10 and are quickly less than 5. (M=ratio of chips to 1 round of blinds/antes).

Otherwise, you'll have to play much more loose than you would in a higher M game. Getting eaten alive by blinds is no way to win.

If they're maniacs and you have the proper blind structure, sit back and play supertight. Make pot sized bets when you have the nuts. Loosen up if your M gets below 10.

Lots of lower limit online SNG have players like this. But the blind structures are proper. Practice playing SUPER-TIGHT with these.

[icemanjmw]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Sit back, relax. Let them take each other out. Only play AA-QQ and AK (preferrably suited). When playing KK and QQ, limp in, and if the flop shows an overcard, dump it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I know your logic, if I raise 4xBB with KK and an Ace comes I have to dump it anyways so I'll get in cheap and see what happens. The problem is you're also letting in 4+ players with hands like 45s, JT, and Qx. Now what happens when the flop comes Q42 rainbow and someone goes all-in? Do you really fold your KK there, or do you call and see that you're behind Q4 two pair?
If there's no money in the pot I'll limp with KK trying to hit a set, otherwise I dump it. Yes, I wait 200 hands for KK and then dump the overpair. If the pot grows preflop before it gets to you then just push all-in and HOPE for someone to call you with AK. Sometimes you lose, but 70% of the time you're winning, and that early double up will usually allow you to fold your way into the money.

[kazana]

[ QUOTE ]
If there's no money in the pot I'll limp with KK trying to hit a set, otherwise I dump it. Yes, I wait 200 hands for KK and then dump the overpair. If the pot grows preflop before it gets to you then just push all-in and HOPE for someone to call you with AK. Sometimes you lose, but 70% of the time you're winning, and that early double up will usually allow you to fold your way into the money.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, that's exactly how I play KK, too. But 3x20 from limpers isn't worth risking my complete stack. There's got to be plenty of chips in the pot for me to go all-in.

In most cases, I won't raise 4xBB with KK. In the early rounds you won't shake off any players that already put a cent into the pot anyway, so I rather limp when 3+ limpers are in before me. Only when I'm the opener I'll raise substantially, but even then you'll get 2+ callers in most cases. The only difference is that their suited cards will be slightly higher and they'll have position on me so that flop better be encouraging.
If I spot an overcard and/or someone raises all-in on the flop I'll dump KK without a second thought.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
In most cases, I won't raise 4xBB with KK. In the early rounds you won't shake off any players that already put a cent into the pot anyway, so I rather limp when 3+ limpers are in before me.

[/ QUOTE ]

With KK, there's no need to wait until the flop. You're playing this for value. Don't let everyone see how much they like the flop before paying to do so. Most of the time, you'll flop good, so raise preflop for value, and then play some poker after the flop.

[kazana]

I doubt that in most cases I'll flop good when up against 3 other players. Only for the 1/8 chance of flopping trips I can be almost certain that I'm far ahead.

What does pokerstove say for playing KK vs 2, 3 or 4 hands (22+, suited connectors, Axs, ATo+, KJo/s+, QJo/s - the stuff people at this level will typically call a strong raise with)?

That would be interesting.