confusing hand

Leonid · #1 05-06-2006, 08:45 PM

Hey, this hand may seem pretty standard to most of you, but I'm going through a rough downswing right now and any help would be greatly appreciated. I had just sat down at the table a few minutes before so I don't have any real reads, but villian seemed decent so far.

I raised A8 UTG because 2 of the players behind me were tags and one was a 45ish vpip player. I would normally fold here if the players behind me were any looser. Usually I like to raise the flop for a free card heads up when I have a strong draw, however I'm not sure if that's the best way to play here assuming I got 3-bet preflop (maybe I'm just being results oriented). I'm also unsure about how I should play the river. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 3 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero....

NB_Gambler · #2 05-06-2006, 09:07 PM

I fold the flop here.
I guess you're beat and only have a inside straight draw.

hotbacon · #3 05-06-2006, 09:16 PM

The flop raise is pretty bad. The only hands you're folding are 77/88, and you're getting 3-bet here so often it's not even funny.
You can certainly peel the flop though, despite how dubious your double gutter is.
The river seems close. You're beat by KQ, AK, kk, and KJs (on the very off chance he would play KJS like that).
You beat TT-QQ, AQ, AA
I don't feel like doing all the combos, but the fact that you're always getting 3-bet by better hands and never by worse hands make the river a call, I think. Also, the range that you beat must be lowered even more because many villains will c/c their AA/AQ or set because they play bad.

WhiteShirt · #4 05-06-2006, 10:20 PM

I can see why you are going through a downswing...my best advice is to post here much more and listen closely.

fold preflop.

your draw on the flop isnt worht anything...fold flop

fold turn

call river and pray.

Leonid · #5 05-07-2006, 04:03 AM

hotbacon, thanks for the constructive reply. I do agree that a lot of players will check that river when they don't have a straight - and that in itself is a good reason to not raise the river. However, I don't think that getting 3-bet by a better hand is neccessarily a bad thing. As I see it right now, it could give us all the more reason to raise - you're going to get called by a lot of worse hands if you raise, but any reasonable player is only going to 3bet a better hand, which you can safely lay down to. If anyone disagrees with me here, I'd be glad to hear what you have to say.

WhiteShirt - I will be posting more. Thanks.

ShakeZula06 · #6 05-07-2006, 04:10 AM

I don't like raising a BB 3bet on this board with your hand. Too often are you getting raised and bet out on the turn. I'd call the flop and an unboard paired turn.

ShakeZula06 · #7 05-07-2006, 04:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop raise is pretty bad. The only hands you're folding are 77/88, and you're getting 3-bet here so often it's not even funny.
You can certainly peel the flop though, despite how dubious your double gutter is.
The river seems close. You're beat by KQ, AK, kk, and KJs (on the very off chance he would play KJS like that).
You beat TT-QQ, AQ, AA
I don't feel like doing all the combos, but the fact that you're always getting 3-bet by better hands and never by worse hands make the river a call, I think. Also, the range that you beat must be lowered even more because many villains will c/c their AA/AQ or set because they play bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are people's thought on peeling this flop?

What about peeling a turn blank? a King doesn't fit very well into villains except for AK, KK, maybe KQs, so our double gutter isn't that dubious.

bigalt · #8 05-07-2006, 04:21 AM

I would definitely fold this preflop on all but the tightest of tables. You're going to end up in a lot of OOP hands where you have no idea where you stand playing this up front.

Once you get to the flop, either he's got queens and jacks and you have outs but he's 3-betting like all the time, or he's got kings and aces and your outs are pretty dirty.

I can see a peel on the flop but after the turn blank your equity is pretty small against any reasonable range for villain. Granted we wouldn't have the extra information the flop 3-bet provided but the pot would be smaller too.

olliepower · #9 05-07-2006, 04:39 AM

fold pre-flop.....MAYBE and i say MABYE raise if sooooooted

DrGutshot · #10 05-07-2006, 01:54 PM

I'd just call the flop - against a BB's 3betting range you are getting 3bet here a lot of the time. When he fires the turn, call again, and then make sure one bet goes in on that river - call a bet, bet if checked to (call a c/r).

Given that you raised the flop, call the river - definitely don't raise.

-DrG