Value raises scare me

9cao · #1 05-03-2006, 05:25 PM

Table is 5 or 6 handed 10/20. I don't think much of Villain but have seen him around quite a bit, doubt he is a winner but he wouldn't be far from break-even. I don't think he is as bad as he comes accross in this hand........

Earlier on this table I raised out of CO with ATs, button (aggressive) called, he called out of blinds. Flop was 577 2 of my suit, I bet 100 looking for button to raise so I could 3-bet, button min-raised, Villain cold-called and shut me down. Turn was blank, checked around. River was T, BB led for 400, I almost timed out and called, button folded, Villain showed 22.

Anyways, Villain has just over 2k I cover. I open UTG to $72 with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Villain calls.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Pot($172)

I bet $125, he calls.

Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Pot($431)

He foils my CR and checks behind.

River T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Pot($431)

I bet $220 and he raises to $600. So this is like 3.3 to 1 but I honestly would have felt better calling a pot-reraise here and hate to give away money. Would it be just complete insanity to fold here?

tubasteve · #2 05-03-2006, 05:33 PM

I'm betting the turn and calling on the river. When he checks the turn I don't like leading a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] river.

#3 05-03-2006, 05:33 PM

PAY IT OFF

MDMA · #4 05-03-2006, 05:40 PM

I really don't like that turn check. And yeah, I call river. If he's that bad that he actually cold called with 22 in that hand before, I wouldn't be surprised to see him have TT here, and AT isn't unlikely as well, or some KT or whatever.

9cao · #5 05-03-2006, 05:45 PM

AT and TT were the only 2 hands I was thinking of.

Can you guys tell me why turn check is so bad? I tend to use this move often in these aggressive games to counteract the times I am going for pot-control with AQ.

edge · #6 05-03-2006, 05:48 PM

I play it exactly the same at least some of the time, except I'd prefer 300 on the river. Then I'd be fine with a fold; with your small bet it's a lot harder.

john kane · #7 05-03-2006, 05:48 PM

i like the check, but then that may be the kiss of death.

john kane · #8 05-03-2006, 05:50 PM

i agree with edge about the river bet. the problem is that you bet is too small that you dont know if he is raising due to the strength of his hand or whether he has smelt weakness. by betting 300-350 then you are still getting called by a lower set or two pair, but know if he raises that it is due to the strength of his hand and not smelling the weakness of you, as there was no weakness in the bet to smell.

MDMA · #9 05-03-2006, 05:52 PM

Well, you didn't really state that you thought villain was very aggressive, and the history given didn't introduce him as aggressive at all really, rather just bad. But generelly this is a hand where he will just check behind with a lot of holdings, weak aces, a king etc, and this isn't a flop that people generally are floating on. So basically the only hand that you'd want to get a checkraise at is a flushdraw, and you can expect that he'd check that behind a fair amount of the time as well. If he was a notorius floater who'd pretty much always bet when checked to a c/r here to balance your hands is of course good, but, then again, you didn't state whether that was the case or not.

9cao · #10 05-03-2006, 06:00 PM

I couldnt say for sure if Villain is aggressive or not or if he floats (I dont think that is an issue on this flop). However, in absence of information I usually assume everyone is aggressive in SH 10/20 until they show me otherwise, right or wrong.

The river bet is for 2 reasons. The first is that it does invite a call from medium strength hand. The second is that it invites a bluff from medium strenth hands. I was willing to call a raise but it was the size of the raise that messes with me.