Who is responsible for left chips...

[thirddan]

i was at commerce last night and heard that someone in the high limit room ran up to a big NL game and just jacked a bunch of cash off the table and took off...he was caught and arrested by a couple security guards, but apparently he was just unprepared and didn't have a getaway driver or else people were saying he would have gotten away...

this made me wonder who is responsible for your chips if you are seated at a table, but walking for a break or for dinner...I am kinda sure that you are responsible for your own chips, but if this is the case why do people leave hundreds or thousands of dollars unattended at the tables while they are walking?

am i responsible? or the dealer? or floorman?

thanks...

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
am i responsible? or the dealer? or floorman?

[/ QUOTE ]

The clubs are put in a tough position here since it's easy to be scammed by a customer with an accomplice.

Here's a quick story. At least ten years ago a Commerce mid limit regular (I'll call him Bob) had a habit of taking predictable twenty minute breaks at the bar every two hours or so. One time ten minutes after he left for the bar a guy comes up to the table and says "Bob is in the bar and wants me to pick up his chips". So he racks up Bob's $800 or so in chips and nobody even gives him a second look. A little while later Bob comes back and wonders where his chips are.

The official story is that the Commerce would not compensate Bob (see my first sentence in this post) but others say that they in fact did (since Bob was a regular and known to be an honest guy).

~ Rick

PS "Bob" no longer drinks.

[SamuraiPlatypus]

i don't think the player can be responsible, since its forbidden to remove chips from the table. thus, if you leave to go to the bathroom, the house makes it impossible to protect your chips. seems like its their responsibility in some capacity.

[psandman]

You are responsible.

One thing that amazes me is the number of people who for some reason believe that a casino should be responsible for everything that happens in a casino. I had one person tell me how appalled they were that a casino wouldn't make good on there loss from being pickpocketed in the casino. I asked them if they were in a hospital waiting room when they were pickpocketed if they would expect the hospital to pay them back the money they lost and they said "No".

[thirddan]

hmm, weird, so far seems like there is no real answer...

sandman - do you just not take breaks? how do you protect your monies while taking a piss and such?

[rageotones]

[ QUOTE ]
You are responsible.

One thing that amazes me is the number of people who for some reason believe that a casino should be responsible for everything that happens in a casino. I had one person tell me how appalled they were that a casino wouldn't make good on there loss from being pickpocketed in the casino. I asked them if they were in a hospital waiting room when they were pickpocketed if they would expect the hospital to pay them back the money they lost and they said "No".

[/ QUOTE ]

apples and oranges (chips on table vs. pickpocketing not casino vs. hospital)

[AKQJ10]

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You are responsible.


[/ QUOTE ]

So then, the only truly responsible thing to do is to color up, count out your stack in front of a floor, take your money off the table, and then bring it back in presence of the same floor?

My assumption has always been that the surveillance on the tables is the best in the casino, so anyone stealing chips from there would have a really small probability of getting away with it. This thread calls that into question, though.

Guess I should be glad I don't play high-stakes poker.

[ QUOTE ]
I asked them if they were in a hospital waiting room when they were pickpocketed if they would expect the hospital to pay them back the money they lost and they said "No".

[/ QUOTE ]

Surveillance isn't quite the same at hospitals. I wouldn't expect the casino to pay me back, but I would expect them to employ every resource to find the pickpocket.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
am i responsible? or the dealer? or floorman?

[/ QUOTE ]

The clubs are put in a tough position here since it's easy to be scammed by a customer with an accomplice.

Here's a quick story. At least ten years ago a Commerce mid limit regular (I'll call him Bob) had a habit of taking predictable twenty minute breaks at the bar every two hours or so. One time ten minutes after he left for the bar a guy comes up to the table and says "Bob is in the bar and wants me to pick up his chips". So he racks up Bob's $800 or so in chips and nobody even gives him a second look. A little while later Bob comes back and wonders where his chips are.

The official story is that the Commerce would not compensate Bob (see my first sentence in this post) but others say that they in fact did (since Bob was a regular and known to be an honest guy).

~ Rick

PS "Bob" no longer drinks.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a case where I think the casino is clearly responsible. The casino knew the chips did not belong to the person who took them but allowed them to be taken merely because the person said they were doing so at the owners behest. This is not reasonable reposnible behavior by the casino.

That is a different scenario then the original post presented.

The poster who said the casino is responsible because the casino rules do not allow the chips to be removed. This is in fact not accurate. Generally the casino will allow you to remove cash or chips provided you return them to the game when you return.

[Jeffage]

Here's the answer...

You're responsible. That said, you may take cash off the table when you walk (such as a 5k bundle or something) as long as you put it back when you return. Or, say you have like 1000 in hundreds under your chips - just structure your stack in such a way that they are completely buried so no one could just snatch them without notice (never leave paper on the rail, etc). You can also take off high denomination chips (purple, orange, etc) or just put them on the bottom of a stack in the front of your chip mound.

In many places, you can get a class "box" to put over your chips when you walk, particularly at high limit games. All this, combined with the fact that others at the table and the dealer are watching, make theft less likely.

But yes, you are responsible, though the casino will try to help you catch a thief if it happens.

Jeff

[psandman]

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So then, the only truly responsible thing to do is to color up, count out your stack in front of a floor, take your money off the table, and then bring it back in presence of the same floor?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually i think you are missing something here, even if you are sitting at the table it is not likely that you would be able to react quick enough to stop someone who ran up and grabbed your chips and took off running, especially since they are going to wait until you are distracted. So this isn't an issue only about being away from the table. It is not uncommon for me to see players remove cash and high denomination chips from a table when step away and retrun it when you come back. It doesn't require a floorperson, just tell the dealer how much you took off. Most people don't worry about low denomination chips (especially ones that aren't in racks). Also most rooms will give you a box to place over your chips which would slow down arun and grab theft.

[ QUOTE ]
My assumption has always been that the surveillance on the tables is the best in the casino, so anyone stealing chips from there would have a really small probability of getting away with it. This thread calls that into question, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your assumption is mistaken. I would expect surveillance in a poker room to be the worst (other than at the poker cage).

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Surveillance isn't quite the same at hospitals. I wouldn't expect the casino to pay me back, but I would expect them to employ every resource to find the pickpocket.

[/ QUOTE ]

Employ every resource? thats a little over the top. While it would be reasonable to expect that they would try to identify the pickpocket and keep there eye out for him if he returns, and provide to the police whatever evidence Surveillence picked up, I hardly expect them to scour the city looking for him.