QQ vs. Cold 4bet

[jk3a]

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And if we call, we'll have about 190 left in an approx. 130 dollar pot, which means we can't fold non A/K flops in general.

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how often do you think he'll cbet after you cold call a 4bet? I mean if he doesnt have AA/KK, don't you think he's gotta be at least somewhat concerned you do? are you always 4betting AA/KK here?

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I understand your point, but we're simply not deep enough, nor have a good enough read on how he would respond if I flat called to ever fold "good" flops. For all I know, he could of just lost 2 stacks on other tables and is tilted or flopped a pair with whatever rag hands he might 4bet with and just say [censored] it.

[sh58]

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fwiw, because we're a bit deep, shoving is -EV if his calling range is KK+,AKo,AKs. Basically we've got 229 behind with a 90 dollar overlay which means we'd be getting 1.4:1 on a shove when he's calling. 1.4:1 requires approx. 42% equity and QQ has only 40% equity against that calling range.

So don't say shove, cause he's not calling JJ here.

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if we can't shove then fold.

also it can be +EV to shove as we win a nice pot if he folds

[optionsguy]

this is def one of those hands where it's better to be OOP so we can shove the flop to reduce his FE because like OP said, we can't fold on any flop once we call pre

[spivey]

This is a fold. Almost nobody cold 4 bets OOP with less than AA/KK/AK. You're not really deep, so if he were going to 4 bet with AK, he's probably going to shove since he's OOP.

[Redgrape]

I think its semi close but shove.

[0evg0]

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I think its semi close but shove.

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[holland3r]

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This is a fold. Almost nobody cold 4 bets OOP with less than AA/KK/AK. You're not really deep, so if he were going to 4 bet with AK, he's probably going to shove since he's OOP.

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I know villain is capable of 4 betting here with more than that range vs me. I shove here.

[MrMetropolitan]

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This is a fold. Almost nobody cold 4 bets OOP with less than AA/KK/AK. You're not really deep, so if he were going to 4 bet with AK, he's probably going to shove since he's OOP.

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I know villain is capable of 4 betting here with more than that range vs me. I shove here.

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I feel exactly the same way and with this in mind I push most of the time. I never fold this preflop. Plus JKA you are really annoying at the tables like always raising button with Q4s and other random hands. I am sure ofishstix has picked up on this as well as on the dynamic you and CO have and so it is possible he has opened his range up to include some other random hands.

[Noam Chomsky]

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fwiw, because we're a bit deep, shoving is -EV if his calling range is KK+,AKo,AKs. Basically we've got 229 behind with a 90 dollar overlay which means we'd be getting 1.4:1 on a shove when he's calling. 1.4:1 requires approx. 42% equity and QQ has only 40% equity against that calling range.

So don't say shove, cause he's not calling JJ here.

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You can't just calculate the ev vs his calling range, assume you get called 100% and call a shove -ev. I'd shove here every time vs him. He does goofy fps stuff fairly often in my limited play vs him.

[jk3a]

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fwiw, because we're a bit deep, shoving is -EV if his calling range is KK+,AKo,AKs. Basically we've got 229 behind with a 90 dollar overlay which means we'd be getting 1.4:1 on a shove when he's calling. 1.4:1 requires approx. 42% equity and QQ has only 40% equity against that calling range.

So don't say shove, cause he's not calling JJ here.

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You can't just calculate the ev vs his calling range, assume you get called 100% and call a shove -ev. I'd shove here every time vs him. He does goofy fps stuff fairly often in my limited play vs him.

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I know that. Should of mentioned sooner. Here is a copy of one of my later posts:






319*.4 + .6*-229 = -9.8

x(90) + (1-x)(-9.8) = 0
x = ~10%

means he has to be bluffing > 10% to make shoving +EV.

If he's bluffing 20% of the time here, we stand to net ~$18 in EV.




I wish I could do a reasonable EV calculation for calling, but there are so many factors that I think it would be rather difficult.