Wynton's routine needs help (long!, but funny little diagrams)

[shemp]

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Shemp,

First, thanks for the detailed responses.

Regarding your last post about the machine that has a "quad dominated movement," is that a bad thing? I thought that one general advice for people with knee issues was to strengthen the quads.

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I'm not a doctor or fitness expert, but the advice to strengthen the quads does not imply to do quad dominated movements. Specifically, (to make the point transparent) the leg extension machine is dubious even for rehab cases because, while it may stimulate the quads, it is such an unnatural movement that whatever kind of strength it develops is hard to use/difficult to leverage. Better to use a movement with greater transference, and if the quads are the limited factor-- well, great, the problem indicates the answer: do it more. Strengthen the quads by doing complex movements which rely on the quads, not by isolating the quads. Strength is largely a matter of teaching the brain to recruit muscles over movement patters (motor learning, etc).

[Wolfram]

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Squat/Deadlift/Bench/OH Press/Row

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Knees/Shoulders/Back

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Excuseaments?

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I pulled my lower back 2-3 weeks ago doing pendlay rows. I've been going to physical therapy since then.

You wanna know what my therapist said to me:
"Rows are great for your back so you must have been doing them wrong or using too much weight. Deadlifts are great too."

Basically, the knew physical therapy view is that anything that strengthens the muscles is good for them as long as you don't overexert yourself. And according to Rippetoe, deep squats put less pressure on the knees than half squats, which the leg-press machine pretty much mimics.

He recommended I go back to doing them (and just lifting free weights) as soon as possible. You just gotta be careful not to overdo the weights.

Wynton,
Do Starting Strength and start with just the bar (45lbs). Focus on perfect form.

After 2 weeks, start ramping the weight up each exercise that you can complete 3 sets of 5 reps with perfect form.

[Wynton]

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Do Starting Strength and start with just the bar (45lbs). Focus on perfect form.

After 2 weeks, start ramping the weight up each exercise that you can complete 3 sets of 5 reps with perfect form.

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Do you have any idea how much actual time this would entail? And does that require a certain number of days per week?

As I mentioned, if I am going to spend 60 minutes or more at the gym - which includes my attempt to do HIIT on an elliptical - I can only get there once during the week, and twice during the weekend (when I can spend 90 minutes there). If I can do a worthwhile workout in much less time, then I can get there a little more often.

Also - if I stick to the same weekly schedule, is it reasonable to do all weights on one day and split them up on the weekend, as I currently do?

[cbloom]

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Regarding your last post about the machine that has a "quad dominated movement," is that a bad thing? I thought that one general advice for people with knee issues was to strengthen the quads.

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Yeah, that's wrong. Strong quads is good, but the key to knee health is balanced development of all the muscles around the knee, as well as flexibility. In fact, overdevelopment of the quads is one of the primary causes of knee damage in athletes. Tight hamstrings or IT bands is another common issue.

It's way way better to do a functional move that will provide correct whole-leg development.

BTW the exact same thing is true about the shoulder - one of the most common causes of injury is overdevelopment of the pec and anterior deltoid while neglecting the rest of the shoulder girdle (lats, rhomboids, rotator cuff, etc)

Those old machines are almost all badly designed to overdevelop the big bodybuilder muscles (quads, pecs, etc).

For someone who's older and has a history of injuries, there is some merit in deviating from the basic Starting Strength formula, especially if you haven't been doing much physical activity for a while. You want to start out with very light weights and do higher reps and make sure your technique and form is correct. IMHO the best thing you could do would be to swim a lot for a few weeks and do light weights while focusing hard on scapular retraction and a neutral spine, also do lots of stretching for the hams and hips.

[theblackkeys]

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Squat/Deadlift/Bench/OH Press/Row

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he has a preexisting knee condition, probably shouldn't be doing heavy squats, although leg press probably would bother it more than squats.

During my physical therapy sessions they had me doing leg press, and I'd hear a click all the time in my knee. I can do bodyweight squats without hearing that click, which I assume is good.

[theblackkeys]

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Regarding your last post about the machine that has a "quad dominated movement," is that a bad thing? I thought that one general advice for people with knee issues was to strengthen the quads.

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Yeah, that's wrong. Strong quads is good, but the key to knee health is balanced development of all the muscles around the knee, as well as flexibility. In fact, overdevelopment of the quads is one of the primary causes of knee damage in athletes. Tight hamstrings or IT bands is another common issue.

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This is what I was told was the cause of my patellar femoral pain. Dominant outer quad muscle, pulling the kneecap a bit off the wrong path. I also think I have pretty weak hamstrings.

[SmileyEH]

OP is 44 and out of shape so obviously throwing down some starting strength moves and quickly ramping up to his 5rep max is going to end with him injured, hating exercise, and resigned to a lifetime of yoga and jogging. DO all the compound lifts but start light and STAY light. Anything close to failure is pointless, just work on training your muscles to do these very natural (but horribly unpracticed) movements for a few months and then start to push yourself.

A 44 year old body has the same capacity to build strength and mass as a 20 year old one (well almost), but it's not going to have the same resiliency to injury and over training.

[Wynton]

Smiley,

What do you mean by "compound lifts"? Are you referring to the ones I recited in the OP?

[thirddan]

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Smiley,

What do you mean by "compound lifts"? Are you referring to the ones I recited in the OP?

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compound lifts = lifts that use multiple muscle groups...deadlift, squat, bench, pull up, clean, row, lunge etc...non compound lifts are the single joint movements like curls/kickbacks/leg extensions etc...

[Thremp]

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OP is 44 and out of shape so obviously throwing down some starting strength moves and quickly ramping up to his 5rep max is going to end with him injured, hating exercise, and resigned to a lifetime of yoga and jogging. DO all the compound lifts but start light and STAY light. Anything close to failure is pointless, just work on training your muscles to do these very natural (but horribly unpracticed) movements for a few months and then start to push yourself.

A 44 year old body has the same capacity to build strength and mass as a 20 year old one (well almost), but it's not going to have the same resiliency to injury and over training.

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Essentially the same stuff but slowing down due to age and injury and the fact he's far more out of shape.