Live 10/20 hand at Commerce. Nut turn, not so nut river...

[EC10]

ask the dealer what the minimum raise allowed is.

then make that raise.

[shaniac]

cliffnotes:

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I’d say he’s stuck in the neighborhood of $6000 or more. He’s definitely out to gamble.

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Results:

I thought for about 20 seconds and folded [the 2nd nuts].

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Vegas here I come.

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[Garland]

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theres absolutely no way this can be a good fold.

he can A4 here so easily.

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This is actually compelling (and the only hand anyone has offered). I absolutely believe he can have A4 on the flop. However can he have this on the turn with the pot sized bet? I know certain villains who are loose enough to make this call. From 5 or so hours of play, I actually don't think he's loose enough to make this call, and there was a timing tell (he called way too quickly with this kind of a marginal hand) that made 46 and very, very likely of [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]s, an overwhelming candidate.

Anyhow, am I sure about the fold? No. Am I happy about the fold? Not really. Do I take the fold lightly? Absolutely not. Why else would I post it? I knew I was going to get flamed by my decision, and that’s ok. I tried to present a sound argument: villain almost certainly holds a 4. If he does, what are the possible cards that accompany that? I made a strong read and went with it. If I folded a chopped pot, so be it. However, I must say that I’m disappointed by the lack of 2nd level thinking by posters (i.e. trying to actually read villain’s hand). All too often I see people play their own hands without regards to getting into the mind of their opponents.

All anyone had to say was, he would have A4 or a slow-played 42, and it becomes a much better argument for calling the river despite my read.

I guess it’s partly my fault. I should have been more explicit in the OP: What hand(s) do you put villain on and what would you do?

I think I’ll let this issue die.

Thanks,

Garland

[mrcoughman]

Is this whole thread a joke?
Anyone have a link to the "Garland teaches..." thread?

[Keepitsimple]

Did you see him minraise anytime in the session Garland and if so, what did it mean?

[Eagles]

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Saying I have a 4 and must call due to odds doesn't cut it.


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Actually it does

[Chaoslord]

ok i give u a few hands that make perfect sense and split: 43hh, 47hh A4, K4hh, maybe 45. not to mention that a bad stuck player can easily come over your weak river bet with a missed draw or even a set for value. so folding here is absolutly horrible

[Garland]

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ok i give u a few hands that make perfect sense and split: 43hh, 47hh A4, K4hh, maybe 45. not to mention that a bad stuck player can easily come over your weak river bet with a missed draw or even a set for value. so folding here is absolutly horrible

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Yes: 43hh, 47hh
No: A4, K4hh, 45, set or river bluff raise.

To be sure, I'm calling to chop the pot 100% here.

This actually convinces me that I made a mistake and should have called. Too many times I've bet the 2nd nut straight only to get raised by the nut (longer) straight, and I've mindlessly called.

Thanks and I'll make the call next time.

Garland

[mwalsh2020]

WORST. FOLD. EVER.
MUST. MOVE. UP.

[fslexcduck]

wtf you folded? is this a joke? you bet 1/3 pot on the river with the second nuts and then folded to a raise of <1/2 pot?

there are no words...