Live 10/20 hand at Commerce. Nut turn, not so nut river... - Page 2

dlpnyc21 · #11 10-11-2007, 07:35 PM

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call river, theres no value in a reraise and he may have 64. rest of the hand is fine.

as for vegas action, bellagio and wynn have the biggest action, but sometimes the venetian will get a 10/20 or bigger game off, and yes it definitely is the nicest poker room in vegas (though wynn is nice too)

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can you give us more information about the players??

I would go for a turn CR, you still have two players left to act and you can bloat the pot a lot. People will often bet Ax on this board, or one of the later position players might try and steal it.

Your river bet looks like a blocker, therefore you have to call. A raise doesn't really make sense.

However, I think betting the river a more standard amount is probably better.

dlpnyc21

Garland · #12 10-13-2007, 02:34 PM

Results:

I thought for about 20 seconds and folded.

Thoughts:

Bobbofitos: What does DLP mean?

So perhaps I should have bet more on the river, but no one suggested how much. $500? $600? Maybe it was a sign of weakness, but again no one was bluff raising the river.

I was also looking for answers in terms of putting the villain on a certain hand. Because on the turn, I made a pot sized bet that isn’t being called lightly. What could he have? A backdoor heart draw with the 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? And was he peeling the flop without the nut backdoor draw on the flop? Probably not. Very unlikely unless it was 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] which kills me anyways.

No, after the river raise, I reviewed things: What did he have on the turn? Slow-played set? He raises 100% on the turn. Turned 2 pair? I believe he would give more than a slight pause to consider raising the turn. In addition both of these hands are not raising the river with a one card straight on the board. I guess he could have 42, but even he’s not that loose, and would also most likely raise the turn (heart draw is there now) So what does that leave him? 46? Let’s see. Loose? Check. Stuck and gambling? Check. The river raise was little more than a min-raise (a “please call me” raise), so it’s not a bluff. I had him on 46 almost 100% and had to make a “power fold” as mikel would say.

As far as the turn goes, given passive UTG and the A appearing there was no way I was going to let that check through. If someone made two pair with the A, it was as likely to get raised, and if I check-raised, I felt it was very likely they would figure out my hand rather quickly. I had not check-raised the entire session.

Also, re-raising would be insane, of course.

Thanks for your thoughts. Vegas here I come.

Garland

KRANTZ · #13 10-13-2007, 03:08 PM

awesome

phiphika1453 · #14 10-13-2007, 04:13 PM

I dont quite understand the fold, but I guess you had a read and went with it.

You folded getting 4-1 on ur money, thats a pretty strong read if you think is gonna have 46 over 80% of the time.

Some9 · #15 10-13-2007, 05:10 PM

remind me to make small river bluffs rather than big ones

seriously this fold is horrible.

Garland · #16 10-13-2007, 06:11 PM

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remind me to make small river bluffs rather than big ones

seriously this fold is horrible.

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If you're going to criticize the fold, you must offer a reasonable hand for MP other than 46. Saying I have a 4 and must call due to odds doesn't cut it.

Garland

Oki-Oki · #17 10-13-2007, 07:05 PM

Is it just me or does it look like Garland came to this thread with a bunch of preconceived ideas of what the answer should be and is steering any debate in that direction.

For the hand call you split a bunch, its pretty unlikely he has exactly 46 very often. From the villian you have descibed you see way more desperate/stupid bluffs than 46.

Garland · #18 10-13-2007, 07:55 PM

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Is it just me or does it look like Garland came to this thread with a bunch of preconceived ideas of what the answer should be and is steering any debate in that direction.

For the hand call you split a bunch, its pretty unlikely he has exactly 46 very often. From the villian you have descibed you see way more desperate/stupid bluffs than 46.

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I posted with the intent to get reasonable hand ranges that play that way to the river. To my knowledge, nobody has offered a specific hand that calls the significant turn bet and raises the river. It's possible I have an oversight and missed another possibility, but no one has thought up a specific hand yet.

Give me one, and I'll be happy to steer the debate that way.

Garland

thatpfunk · #19 10-13-2007, 08:17 PM

theres absolutely no way this can be a good fold.

he can A4 here so easily.

Parlay Slow · #20 10-13-2007, 08:20 PM

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remind me to make small river bluffs rather than big ones

seriously this fold is horrible.

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If you're going to criticize the fold, you must offer a reasonable hand for MP other than 46. Saying I have a 4 and must call due to odds doesn't cut it.

Garland

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it cuts it