10/20 giving up really easy

[gehrig]

dont have the hand history on this computer

i raise two limpers with JTs on the button, one of the blinds calls

KKTr, i bet and only a 35/10/1 type donk calls
turn A and i kind of want to take the free card and fold the river if he leads unless i hit a T or a straight

[sweetjazz]

Your hand is still too strong to give up on. Betting is problematic because a king is likely to check raise and price you out of your straight draw. Meanwhile your opponent likely doesn't have many outs. So checking behind the turn seems like a viable option.

However, your hand is too strong to fold on the river (assuming a blank), because you will be getting 6:1 on a call. Your opponent may have a K, an A, or QJ, but he could also have another hand with a T in it, a busted draw like Q9 or J9, or a small-medium pocket pair.

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands. Here you can use your position to do just this and make a long-term profit by investing one more bet to try to win this 5 BB pot.

[gehrig]

thats what i would typically do

this guy's kind of mousey though. is 6-1 really enough against his range? this guy isnt betting pairs that dont beat me all that often and he probably gives up with missed gutshots more than he bluffs the river with them

[sweetjazz]

Well you have to factor in your read with your decision, but I think the idea of checking behind with the intention of folding the river UI is not a good standard line in most aggressive online games. You will usually lose when you call a river bet and sometimes will just split, yet the 6:1 odds can still making calling better. If your read is that the guy never bluffs and never makes the mistake of betting a small pair, then you have a case for folding. If your read is that he would check raise with a K or QJ on the flop, then you have a case for calling.

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be on a plaque.

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let us know when they'll be ready and I'll PM you my shipping address.
This should be on a plaque.

[/ QUOTE ]

[MATT111]

[ QUOTE ]


Remember that the key to limit HE is generally (..) to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands.

[/ QUOTE ]


This hand aside I find this an interesting point as pot control is a concept I did not think a lot about in terms of limit.

[Hoi Polloi]

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is still too strong to give up on. Betting is problematic because a king is likely to check raise and price you out of your straight draw. Meanwhile your opponent likely doesn't have many outs. So checking behind the turn seems like a viable option.

However, your hand is too strong to fold on the river (assuming a blank), because you will be getting 6:1 on a call. Your opponent may have a K, an A, or QJ, but he could also have another hand with a T in it, a busted draw like Q9 or J9, or a small-medium pocket pair.

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands. Here you can use your position to do just this and make a long-term profit by investing one more bet to try to win this 5 BB pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I, too, like the check behind, call the river with this hand. You have something to show down that will be good often enough to justify 1 more bet going in. A turn bet will win some percentage of the time, but in those cases you are likely to snap off a bluff occasionally for more profit on the river. Betting the turn, of course, opens you to a raise that you would have to fold to without a very good read. Show this thing down.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands. Here you can use your position to do just this and make a long-term profit by investing one more bet to try to win this 5 BB pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really mean "control the size of the pot," or something more like "control the amount of your investment in the pot?"

What I am getting at is that if you keep pots small with weakish hands, you will often have to find laydowns later since you won't be getting good odds to call. Here, though, the pot is already large enough that we'd like to get to showdown for 1BB if we can, so keeping our investment down is the thing to do.

Right?

Guy.

[cartman]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you really mean "control the size of the pot," or something more like "control the amount of your investment in the pot?"


[/ QUOTE ]

Guy,

You understand correctly. Basically he is saying when your hand is weak but could win in a showdown, you should try to get it there cheaply if you have the chance.