10/20 giving up really easy
 

dont have the hand history on this computer

i raise two limpers with JTs on the button, one of the blinds calls

KKTr, i bet and only a 35/10/1 type donk calls
turn A and i kind of want to take the free card and fold the river if he leads unless i hit a T or a straight

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

Your hand is still too strong to give up on. Betting is problematic because a king is likely to check raise and price you out of your straight draw. Meanwhile your opponent likely doesn't have many outs. So checking behind the turn seems like a viable option.

However, your hand is too strong to fold on the river (assuming a blank), because you will be getting 6:1 on a call. Your opponent may have a K, an A, or QJ, but he could also have another hand with a T in it, a busted draw like Q9 or J9, or a small-medium pocket pair.

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands. Here you can use your position to do just this and make a long-term profit by investing one more bet to try to win this 5 BB pot.

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

thats what i would typically do

this guy's kind of mousey though. is 6-1 really enough against his range? this guy isnt betting pairs that dont beat me all that often and he probably gives up with missed gutshots more than he bluffs the river with them

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

Well you have to factor in your read with your decision, but I think the idea of checking behind with the intention of folding the river UI is not a good standard line in most aggressive online games. You will usually lose when you call a river bet and sometimes will just split, yet the 6:1 odds can still making calling better. If your read is that the guy never bluffs and never makes the mistake of betting a small pair, then you have a case for folding. If your read is that he would check raise with a K or QJ on the flop, then you have a case for calling.

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

[ QUOTE ]

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be on a plaque.

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

[ QUOTE ]


Remember that the key to limit HE is generally (..) to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands.

[/ QUOTE ]


This hand aside I find this an interesting point as pot control is a concept I did not think a lot about in terms of limit.

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let us know when they'll be ready and I'll PM you my shipping address.
This should be on a plaque.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is still too strong to give up on. Betting is problematic because a king is likely to check raise and price you out of your straight draw. Meanwhile your opponent likely doesn't have many outs. So checking behind the turn seems like a viable option.

However, your hand is too strong to fold on the river (assuming a blank), because you will be getting 6:1 on a call. Your opponent may have a K, an A, or QJ, but he could also have another hand with a T in it, a busted draw like Q9 or J9, or a small-medium pocket pair.

Remember that the key to limit HE is generally not to find laydowns but rather to control the size of the pot with your weakish hands. Here you can use your position to do just this and make a long-term profit by investing one more bet to try to win this 5 BB pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I, too, like the check behind, call the river with this hand. You have something to show down that will be good often enough to justify 1 more bet going in. A turn bet will win some percentage of the time, but in those cases you are likely to snap off a bluff occasionally for more profit on the river. Betting the turn, of course, opens you to a raise that you would have to fold to without a very good read. Show this thing down.

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

I think checking the turn and calling the river is the best play here. It gives you the benefits of A) getting a free card to hit your gutshot B) possibly inducing a bluff from a hand like 77 C) if you're ahead there is very little chance a free card will hurt you and D) will cost the same as bet/folding the turn, but allows you to showdown your hand and not get bluffed out of the pot.

Just my opinion...

Re: 10/20 giving up really easy
 

I would take the free card, but I wouldn't fold the river.